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westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Jun 8, 2018 - 5:53pm

You write that you knew about atrocities during the Iraq War, including Americans destroying with acid the bodies of detainees who had died during torture. But you didn’t report it because Cheney would have destroyed your sources. Howdid you protect your sources during the Bush years?

It was hard—by not writing stuff I knew.


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Posted: Jun 5, 2018 - 5:25pm

More on Hersh:

You write that you chased the incredibly vague My Lai tip because you were convinced your colleagues in the Pentagon press room wouldn’t. Why wouldn’t they?

I was worried about The New York Times, if you notice, but I knew the guys in the Pentagon press room wouldn’t do it. It was so hard to report there. Don’t forget, anytime you saw a senior officer, they had to log (your name) in. If you had a good story, you had to see five or six different people with bullshit to mask the one guy that told you something important.

So it wasn’t a matter of not wanting to tell the story?

I don’t know. (Press room colleagues) treated me like some sort of rare, exotic animal.

I knew from my own experiences that the war was bad and shit. And by the way, I never thought for one minute that the fact that I learned OJT that the war sucked made me a lefty. I mean, I was. I am a liberal. But I was just somebody who knew the war sucked. I learned by just going to lunch with these guys. They were saying how we have to kill everybody because there are six lieutenant colonels and only one of you is gonna make colonel, and it’s the one that kills the most. So in the last six months of your rotation as a battalion commander, you just fucking….You got 2,000 deaths, man. That’s how bad it was.

I was dead set against the war. It was the right thing to be. Anybody with any fucking brains was. Half the guys in the military were thinking of quitting.


Lazy8
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Posted: Jun 5, 2018 - 3:01pm

 R_P wrote:
I don't see it as being less guilty. He's guilty without a doubt. But he's just one of many (which indeed were not held to account). And the event in question is also but one of many. Being "no more at fault" isn't the same as "less guilty". Sure, semantics.
 
I think it's safe to say that accountability (for your own actions) hasn't been your nation's (or government if you like) strong suit. Image building/preservation and all that, which is very much echoed to this day.
 
I remember the protests, which boggled my teenage mind: allegedly antiwar activists demanding that Calley be freed. There were staunch hawks arguing the same thing, but for different reasons. It was l'Affaire Dreyfus of the time. And I remember the eventual commutation of his sentence. Calley didn't face the justice he should have and neither did his superiors.

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Posted: Jun 5, 2018 - 2:46pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
 R_P wrote:
Calley is really no more at fault than anyone else there: he shouldn’t have been an officer, he shouldn’t have been sent to fight a war he could not comprehend, he shouldn’t have known the body count as the only standard of success, and he shouldn’t be on trial any more than the higher-ranking officers who did nothing about the slaughter afterwards, thus inducing that many more killings. Perhaps there is even less reason to try Calley than the top brass at the Pentagon, or maybe an American president or two, or three. Perhaps you and me should be on trial for not doing more to stop the war.
 
This view bothered me at the time and it still bothers me.
 
That others were culpable—fine. Hold them accountable. But the fact that others went unpunished doesn't make Calley less culpable. What he did was monstrous.
 
If you think it does—and I remember that being a popular point of view at the time—then what do you think of someone like Hugh Thompson, who intervened (at great personal cost) to stop some of those killings? If Calley is less guilty because others went unpunished is he less heroic?
 
I don't see it as being less guilty. He's guilty without a doubt. But he's just one of many (which indeed were not held to account). And the event in question is also but one of many. Being "no more at fault" isn't the same as "less guilty". Sure, semantics.
 
I think it's safe to say that accountability (for your own actions) hasn't been your nation's (or government if you like) strong suit. Image building/preservation and all that, which is very much echoed to this day. To some extent it's a problem with many nations.

Lazy8
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Posted: Jun 5, 2018 - 2:20pm

 R_P wrote:
Calley is really no more at fault than anyone else there: he shouldn’t have been an officer, he shouldn’t have been sent to fight a war he could not comprehend, he shouldn’t have known the body count as the only standard of success, and he shouldn’t be on trial any more than the higher-ranking officers who did nothing about the slaughter afterwards, thus inducing that many more killings. Perhaps there is even less reason to try Calley than the top brass at the Pentagon, or maybe an American president or two, or three. Perhaps you and me should be on trial for not doing more to stop the war.
 
This view bothered me at the time and it still bothers me.
 
That others were culpable—fine. Hold them accountable. But the fact that others went unpunished doesn't make Calley less culpable. What he did was monstrous.
 
If you think it does—and I remember that being a popular point of view at the time—then what do you think of someone like Hugh Thompson, who intervened (at great personal cost) to stop some of those killings? If Calley is less guilty because others went unpunished is he less heroic?

westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Jun 5, 2018 - 12:44pm

 R_P wrote:
Calley .....


 
The memoir of the My Lai massacre is written by Seymour M. Hersch.  

Good read.  Good find R_P.   

Reminds us all that sectarian and racist views are still shaping US foreign policy.  
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Posted: Jun 5, 2018 - 12:05pm

Calley is really no more at fault than anyone else there: he shouldn’t have been an officer, he shouldn’t have been sent to fight a war he could not comprehend, he shouldn’t have known the body count as the only standard of success, and he shouldn’t be on trial any more than the higher-ranking officers who did nothing about the slaughter afterwards, thus inducing that many more killings. Perhaps there is even less reason to try Calley than the top brass at the Pentagon, or maybe an American president or two, or three. Perhaps you and me should be on trial for not doing more to stop the war.

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Posted: May 28, 2018 - 11:57am

We Need Memorial Day to Obscure the Unbearable Truth About War
Wars aren’t about conflicts between societies, they’re about conflicts within societies.
sirdroseph
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Posted: May 3, 2018 - 4:58am

 miamizsun wrote:


nothing bad about it

but i did check with some important people and it is still a borderline "beer penalty"

so when you see me...

 




Cold draft Samuel Adams Oktoberfest so it will have to be in the fall. I remember.
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2018 - 4:35am

 sirdroseph wrote:
 lol My bad. He even figured out how to embed that window which I could not, but yea let's make sure everyone sees it so I will just leave the duplicate.
 

nothing bad about it

but i did check with some important people and it is still a borderline "beer penalty"

so when you see me...
sirdroseph
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Posted: May 3, 2018 - 4:23am

 miamizsun wrote:


that one was pointed out below  {#Arrowd}
but you'll still get your social credit points for echoing the sentiment    {#Cheers}

 





lol My bad. He even figured out how to embed that window which I could not, but yea let's make sure everyone sees it so I will just leave the duplicate.


miamizsun

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Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2018 - 4:14am

 sirdroseph wrote:
Holy crap! I don't really watch MSM, but looks like they are just giving up the facade altogether!  A brief glimpse of truth accidentally slips out now and then:

CNN’s Wolf Blitzer Says Slaughtering Kids in Yemen is Worth It Because It Creates Jobs

 

that one was pointed out below  {#Arrowd}
but you'll still get your social credit points for echoing the sentiment    {#Cheers}
sirdroseph
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Posted: May 3, 2018 - 2:25am

Holy crap! I don't really watch MSM, but looks like they are just giving up the facade altogether!  A brief glimpse of truth accidentally slips out now and then:

CNN’s Wolf Blitzer Says Slaughtering Kids in Yemen is Worth It Because It Creates Jobs

 

 



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Posted: May 1, 2018 - 11:06am

The Lies Behind America’s Interventions
No one wants to be manipulated into war. So why do we keep letting it happen?
ScottFromWyoming
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Posted: Apr 29, 2018 - 8:21pm

 donmonty wrote:
BEST BUMPER STICKER EVER - SAW IT IN Santa Monica -
"PEACE      IS PATRIOTIC TOO" 

 

donmonty

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Posted: Apr 29, 2018 - 5:58pm

BEST BUMPER STICKER EVER - SAW IT IN Santa Monica -
"PEACE      IS PATRIOTIC TOO" 
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Posted: Apr 29, 2018 - 9:03am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Did they tell Wolf to pander to the right? What a turd.
 
Money beats any 'moral concerns'. Just another glib sociopath.
ScottFromWyoming
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Location: Powell
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Posted: Apr 29, 2018 - 8:53am

 R_P wrote:


 
Did they tell Wolf to pander to the right? What a turd.
R_P
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Posted: Apr 29, 2018 - 8:30am


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Posted: Apr 27, 2018 - 1:30pm


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