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haresfur
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Location: The Golden Triangle
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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 11:15pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Once again, a terrible law.  It prevented people who receive Social Security Disability from buying guns, simply because they receive SSD.  (...) As legitimate recipients of SSD, this directly affected me and my wife. (...)



There's a bit of weird disconnect here with Trump's statements that the FBI somehow should have stopped the shooter before it happened. Like what were they going to do with the tools at their disposal? They couldn't legally keep the gun out of his hands, they couldn't imprison him. I suppose they could have gone, busted down his door and shot him like that poor sod in California or wherever who was killed by police acting on an intentionally false tip.

I suppose you could look at it like any other government program like food stamps where the Republicans want to limit access. I mean no one has to take disability. If owning a gun is that important to you, opt out. Ok, I don't really believe that's a good solution, but there are plenty of other options. If you are in a high risk category, then you can have a double barrel shotgun and hunt ducks to your heart's content. Or a bolt action rifle for deer but not something for blowing away lots of kids. Or just keep anyone from having weapons of mass murder and then it's equitable.

There are several nice things about Australia's gun limits. If someone is running around with a gun illegally, then that means that they can be stopped proactively. If anyone can carry a gun into a burger king then you have no way to prevent gun crimes. Yes, the bikey gangs can get guns. But it's harder and they are harder to replace after you shoot someone and throw them into the ocean. So crims factor that into their decision on whether to blow someone away. Is it worth the trouble and expense to them? People with guns are far more worried about someone stealing them than they are about getting attacked. So they take care to lock them up and have a neighbour look after them when away for extended periods.
Steely_D
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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 9:39pm

 oldbuzzard wrote:
All of Benghazi belongs to Hillary. That will never change!
 


It's time to talk about what Trump can/can't do. It's way too obvious that every time someone points out Trump's incompetence - and remember his selling point was that he's not a politician nor one of the elites - someone pops up to say "what about "Hillary" or "what about Obama" and hope that folks get distracted. This is in place of a cogent argument that might sway people's minds.

islander
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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 9:33pm

 kurtster wrote:

The very last line ...

it would pertain exclusively to the subset of Social Security disability recipients who have been deemed incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.

Deemed is the big one there.  How is deemed congruent with Due Process for openers ?  You have to prove yourself innocent to get removed from the list.

My wife is permanently and totally disabled because a motherfucking cellphone driving a car rear ended my wife's car immediately ending her contracting career and leaving her wife a 20lb weight limit, two back surgeries resulting in hardware and intolerable intermittent pain and serious permanent background pain.  She has not worked nor been able to work a single day since.  She also ended up with a PTSD diagnosis as a result of dealing with the injury and my cancer as she was to be the one to support us through my shit as I was done working, for obvious reasons. This happened as she on the way to the hospital to visit me during one of my early rounds of 24 hour week long rounds of chemo.  It took 5 years to settle this claim.  As a result of our attorney fucking us over and the 5 years of financial devastation before getting the settlement, she had to declare bankruptcy to end it all.  Bankruptcy would easily be a sign of being incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.  Right ???  And with my cancer and being married to someone who went bankrupt would make me equally incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.

Yeah, let a bureaucrat or a computer deem you to be something that you are not or have not been proven to be and then leave you the burden to prove otherwise.

Now you want to go re examine my statement you quoted for accuracy, eh ??????????????????????????????????

I'm done here on this one.  Gotta take a xanax in order to get to sleep now.

Goodnite ...
 
Has your wife been deemed incompetent?  Was she placed on the NCIS list?  Was she prevented from purchasing a firearm? 

The financial conditions there do seem a bit odd, but it's not an unusual condition for people who are deemed incompetent (usually by a court, but also by other authorities, I've yet to hear of it being done by a computer).  And there is a process for being declared incompetent, and it does involve due process. 

The rest of the statement from Richard's link that you left out of your italicized bit says: "due to “marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease”:". So if those are the reasons that someone is being deemed incompetent and not being allowed to own a firearm, I'm not seeing a huge problem.  Maybe we can just add some qualifiers on the financial bit, but overall it looks pretty reasonable - you do have the right of appeal as well, for additional due process. 
R_P
Ni dieu ni maître
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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 9:28pm

 kurtster wrote:

The very last line ...

it would pertain exclusively to the subset of Social Security disability recipients who have been deemed incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.

(... ) Now you want to go re examine my statement you quoted for accuracy, eh ??????????????????????????????????

I'm done here on this one.  Gotta take a xanax in order to get to sleep now.

Goodnite ...
Social Security recipients who have been deemed unable to manage their own affairs due to “marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease”
Maybe it does apply...
sdwright
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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 9:26pm

 kurtster wrote:
{....}

Yeah, let a bureaucrat or a computer deem you to be something that you are not or have not been proven to be and then leave you the burden to prove otherwise.

Now you want to go re examine my statement you quoted for accuracy, eh ??????????????????????????????????

I'm done here on this one.  Gotta take a xanax in order to get to sleep now.

Goodnite ...
 
Kurt it appears to a new person that you've been here long enough to know that's how the majority of these buzzards and trolls operate around here... and they appear to be the majority, or at least just running things, including fellow listeners out of dodge.  It's just S.O.P. of some S.O.B. types.  They're damaged and miserable and nobody likes them in real life so they hide behind computers and take out their angst on others who had nothing to do with it.  And they've not  anything to say that's worth hearing...  But they get off on it when you let it piss you off.  Remember who you are.  Remember who they are.  


kurtster

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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 9:14pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Once again, a terrible law.  It prevented people who receive Social Security Disability from buying guns, simply because they receive SSD.  (...) As legitimate recipients of SSD, this directly affected me and my wife. (...)


 
The very last line ...

it would pertain exclusively to the subset of Social Security disability recipients who have been deemed incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.

Deemed is the big one there.  How is deemed congruent with Due Process for openers ?  You have to prove yourself innocent to get removed from the list.

My wife is permanently and totally disabled because a motherfucking cellphone driving an accelerating car and never even touched the brakes as he rear ended my wife's car immediately ending her contracting career and leaving her with a 20lb weight limit, two back surgeries resulting in hardware and intolerable intermittent pain and serious permanent background pain.  The impact was so hard the sole of her shoe was cracked in half.  She has not worked nor been able to work a single day since.  She also ended up with a PTSD diagnosis as a result of dealing with the injury and my cancer as she was to be the one to support us through my shit as I was done working, for obvious reasons. This happened as she was on the way to the hospital to visit me during one of my early rounds of 24 hour week long rounds of chemo.  It took 5 years to settle this claim.  As a result of our attorney fucking us over and the 5 years of financial devastation before getting the settlement, she had to declare bankruptcy to end it all.  Bankruptcy would easily be a sign of being incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.  Right ???  And with my cancer and being married to someone who went bankrupt would make me equally incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.

Yeah, let a bureaucrat or a computer deem you to be something that you are not or have not been proven to be and then leave you the burden to prove otherwise.

Oh yeah one last thing, so you get off SSD because of your age or a change in your condition does this stigma magically disappear or does it stick with you forever ?

Now you want to go re examine my statement you quoted for accuracy, eh ??????????????????????????????????

I'm done here on this one.  Gotta take a xanax in order to get to sleep now.

Goodnite ...

sdwright
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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 9:13pm

 R_P wrote:
 

R_P
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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 8:40pm

 kurtster wrote:
Once again, a terrible law.  It prevented people who receive Social Security Disability from buying guns, simply because they receive SSD.  (...) As legitimate recipients of SSD, this directly affected me and my wife. (...)

oldbuzzard
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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 8:28pm

 Steely_D wrote:
I'm thinking that it's painfully obvious that the WH is intent on discrediting the FBI so as to stave off the whole Russian thing. "Look the FBI is incompetent!"

And now there's this kid who killed 17 students, and the FBI is being forced to say it was incompetent; it had gotten info and blown it.

I'm imagining that, not too long from now, the WH will start pointing fingers and this will be the FBI's Benghazi. 

 
All of Benghazi belongs to Hillary. That will never change!
kurtster

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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 8:04pm

 Steely_D wrote:
Reminder - less than one year ago. Done without press or fanfare. Was he not proud that he'd turned back another of Obama's policies?
Usually it's an occasion to thump his chest. Why not this specific time?
Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses

 
Once again, a terrible law.  It prevented people who receive Social Security Disability from buying guns, simply because they receive SSD.  And there was also a provision against veterans as well.  As I said in the guns thread earlier, it is a profound violation of DUE PROCESS.  Obama hates the disabled and veterans.  Else why were they included ?  As legitimate recipients of SSD, this directly affected me and my wife.

This was an executive order law written by Obama all by his lonesome, not Congress.    It was rightfully undone by an executive order.

It is assuming guilt before being proved.  This is the standard you are supporting as a means towards your end.
  


ScottN
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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 3:06pm

Whatever Trump Is Hiding Is Hurting All of Us Now


Edit: From NYT columnist Thomas Friedman.


hayduke2

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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 12:50pm

Jeffrey Toobin wrote this illuminating piece about that skanky crook and Putin's tool:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/02/26/trumps-miss-universe-gambit
Steely_D
Angular banjoes sound good to me.
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Location: Biscayne Bay
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Posted: Feb 17, 2018 - 8:42pm

Reminder - less than one year ago. Done without press or fanfare. Was he not proud that he'd turned back another of Obama's policies?
Usually it's an occasion to thump his chest. Why not this specific time?
Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses
Steely_D
Angular banjoes sound good to me.
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Location: Biscayne Bay
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Posted: Feb 17, 2018 - 8:32pm

Trump Attends Mar-a-Lago Disco Party After Meeting with Florida Shooting Survivors

How much of his time did he spend with survivors of the mass shooting before partying? I'm reading it was 20 minutes.


sdwright
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Posted: Feb 17, 2018 - 3:33pm

BillG wrote:
 sdwright wrote:

Edit: this site is so wonky apparently it is underlying and bolding everything I type against my will. 


If would stop insisting on putting your replies at the top, problems like that would magically fix themselves. 

Yeah, that's quirky. Deal with it. 

 
My sincere apologies to all for putting postings in the wrong format.  I'll break that bad habit.

I seem to have upset several fellow listeners and that was not my intention.  I can be better.


BillG
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Posted: Feb 17, 2018 - 2:06pm

 sdwright wrote:

Edit: this site is so wonky apparently it is underlying and bolding everything I type against my will. 


If would stop insisting on putting your replies at the top, problems like that would magically fix themselves. 

Yeah, that's quirky. Deal with it. 
Steely_D
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Posted: Feb 17, 2018 - 12:09pm

 

This is the beginning of a series of tweets that are worth reading.


Steely_D
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Posted: Feb 16, 2018 - 8:42pm

I'm thinking that it's painfully obvious that the WH is intent on discrediting the FBI so as to stave off the whole Russian thing. "Look the FBI is incompetent!"

And now there's this kid who killed 17 students, and the FBI is being forced to say it was incompetent; it had gotten info and blown it.

I'm imagining that, not too long from now, the WH will start pointing fingers and this will be the FBI's Benghazi. 
VV
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Posted: Feb 16, 2018 - 2:58pm

 sirdroseph wrote:
 sdwright wrote:
I'm not a big fan of him either, but can't abide a criminal like HRC as first woman to receive that honor in our country.  That would just be blasphemy.  But IMHO Trump's chapter may end up the most colorful of all... year one was remarkable in so many ways and no need to dash off pages of how he is a complete failure IYHO, blah blah, won't read it... was only commenting on the absurdity of your dustbin statement.  Things have been shaken up by this man and he is just getting started.  Maybe he will even get impeached  at some point which would make his chapter even fatter like Bill's got when he was... only two of those so far...

At the risk of being called whatever, I agree with you. I always say separate the art from the artist and that applies to Trump as well, there are not many who would argue he is not a despicable human being however that does not mean he is not changing the paradigm, shining some light on places that need to be shone and doing some good things for this country along with the bad. We will all see how it ends in the wash, but I do not see the sky falling like the "cool kids" do.

Edit: this site is so wonky apparently it is underlying and bolding everything I type against my will.
 
The only light he is shining is just how much we have taken the presidency for granted that... now that we have someone so completely incompetent in office and he has surrounded himself with nearly equally incompetent people .... we really come to appreciate all those that came before him.

sdwright
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Posted: Feb 16, 2018 - 11:54am

I'm sure I'll be savaged here for saying I actually think plenty of change is coming and it's long overdue...  the cool kids can't even abide changing the way I write some of my responses... latest on top, like MS Outlook does it and every other tool... latest first but I'm hated for not burying the lead under their seven paragraphs...  what is up with that?!?  Maybe this is the only electronic tool they drive...
 

sirdroseph wrote:
 sdwright wrote:
I'm not a big fan of him either, but can't abide a criminal like HRC as first woman to receive that honor in our country.  That would just be blasphemy.  But IMHO Trump's chapter may end up the most colorful of all... year one was remarkable in so many ways and no need to dash off pages of how he is a complete failure IYHO, blah blah, won't read it... was only commenting on the absurdity of your dustbin statement.  Things have been shaken up by this man and he is just getting started.  Maybe he will even get impeached  at some point which would make his chapter even fatter like Bill's got when he was... only two of those so far...

At the risk of being called whatever, I agree with you. I always say separate the art from the artist and that applies to Trump as well, there are not many who would argue he is not a despicable human being however that does not mean he is not changing the paradigm, shining some light on places that need to be shone and doing some good things for this country along with the bad. We will all see how it ends in the wash, but I do not see the sky falling like the "cool kids" do.

Edit: this site is so wonky apparently it is underlying and bolding everything I type against my will.
 


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