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Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 11:04am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

In normal times, this is correct (both of you). But since there's a thick cloud of suspicion around these two, they might have considered having their only meetings in public and leave the back room stuff to underlings.

 
In Donnie's case, you're assuming presence of mind and careful consideration where none exists.
ScottFromWyoming

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 11:01am

 sirdroseph wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

Absolutely.  That's what I expect world leaders to do.  I have never seen it raised as an issue before.

 


Gotta agree with you here. When Obama was overheard with the infamous flexibility off record conversation with Putin, I thought this was a good thing and made me feel at least a little better regarding our relationship with Russia. It showed Obama cared more about our countries relationships and not just the political perception. Our leaders need to cooperate in spite of our at times idiot constituencies and if it is not politically expedient to do so publicly, then meet in a dark bar in Budapest and get something done. I am a big fan of back channels, that is how things get done.

 
In normal times, this is correct (both of you). But since there's a thick cloud of suspicion around these two, they might have considered having their only meetings in public and leave the back room stuff to underlings.
Proclivities

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 10:18am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 Red_Dragon wrote:
 
That ought to get him disbarred.
 
I believe it's legal in NY State for attorneys to record conversations with clients, witnesses, or other people in their office, with or without their knowledge.  Releasing those recordings is obviously another matter.
sirdroseph

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 10:14am

 kurtster wrote:

Absolutely.  That's what I expect world leaders to do.  I have never seen it raised as an issue before.

 
Gotta agree with you here. When Obama was overheard with the infamous flexibility off record conversation with Putin, I thought this was a good thing and made me feel at least a little better regarding our relationship with Russia. It showed Obama cared more about our countries relationships and not just the political perception. Our leaders need to cooperate in spite of our at times idiot constituencies and if it is not politically expedient to do so publicly, then meet in a dark bar in Budapest and get something done. I am a big fan of back channels, that is how things get done.


sirdroseph

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 10:10am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 Red_Dragon wrote:
 
That ought to get him disbarred.


 
I would certainly think so if not, the whole profession will be under question.


Lazy8

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 10:00am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
 
That ought to get him disbarred.

kurtster

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 9:58am

 Steely_D wrote:

If Obama had met privately with Putin would you be cool with that?

 
Absolutely.  That's what I expect world leaders to do.  I have never seen it raised as an issue before.
pigtail

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 9:45am

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/us/politics/anti-abortion-roe-v-wade.html?action=click&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=Article&region=Footer&contentCollection=Politics
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 9:22am

Michael Cohen Secretly Taped Trump Discussing Payment to Playboy Model
Proclivities

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 7:23am

 kurtster wrote:
Just break out the firing squad already.  Former CIA director Brennan, who for some strange reason still has his top secret security clearance (and works for NBC), as does Clapper, has deemed Trump guilty of Treason.  A capital offense, right ?  I can post videos of Brennan if you don't believe me.   Just ask ...  I've seen treason mentioned in this thread so many times  it makes me dizzy(er)

So to hell with impeachment.  Impeachment is for pussies.  We all know Trump has committed treason right in front of our very eyes and we have Brennan confirming it.  What more proof do we need ?

I bet we see a national lottery for being on the firing squad.  We also know we need to use silver bullets, right ?

But we better act quickly, because with all this talk about treason an all, jeez I've even heard Pearl Harbour and Kristallnacht, too,  someone who is willing to do it for free might beat y'all to it.

Treason, treason, treason !!!

 
Exaggerating the "punishment" for Trump does not excuse his actions; that is a textbook example of propping up a straw man.  I don't recall any public official or news personality calling for Trump's execution, but you don't really think that if you can bring it up that it will muddy the waters enough so that people may accept or forget the out-of-control circus fire that's been going on since Monday (the flames were in tents), do you?  By the strict definition of "treason", I don't believe Trump's actions fit it, but for "consultants" or other TV personalities they can throw it out there all the time, recklessly or not.  Lord knows that word was hyperbolically used hundreds of times by right-wing pundits in reference to Obama and both Clintons, but that didn't seem to bother you.  As to "security clearance" - apparently it can be kept valid for two years after leaving Federal service.

The Department of State will revalidate a security clearance if (1) the individual has not been out of federal service for more than 2 years and (2) if the individual's clearance is based on an appropriate and current personnel security clearance investigation.

 Both Brennan and Clapper (neither of whom I give very much credence to) left Federal service in 2017, so I guess they could still have the clearance, but whether or not they do is irrelevant to what's going on and is almost as much of a red herring as your execution scenario.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 6:13am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
from the Guardian:
Wesley Clark, a retired US army general and former Nato supreme allied commander, went further, voicing concerns that Trump’s remarks could destablise the traditionally volatile Balkan region. “Worrying to hear Trump use Russian talking points with Tucker Carlson, about Montenegro,” he said in a tweet referring to Trump’s Fox News interviewer. “Montenegro has been under continuous pressure by Russia for more than a decade. Trump’s comments weaken Nato, give Russia a license to cause trouble and thereby actually increase the risks of renewed conflict in the Balkans.”


 
Donnie had probably never heard of Montenegro before Vlad told him what to say about it.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 2:32am

from the Guardian:
Wesley Clark, a retired US army general and former Nato supreme allied commander, went further, voicing concerns that Trump’s remarks could destablise the traditionally volatile Balkan region. “Worrying to hear Trump use Russian talking points with Tucker Carlson, about Montenegro,” he said in a tweet referring to Trump’s Fox News interviewer. “Montenegro has been under continuous pressure by Russia for more than a decade. Trump’s comments weaken Nato, give Russia a license to cause trouble and thereby actually increase the risks of renewed conflict in the Balkans.”

kcar

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Posted: Jul 20, 2018 - 12:29am

 Steely_D wrote:

If Obama had met privately with Putin would you be cool with that? If not, then why is it OK for Trump? There's an opposite of Trump Derangement Syndrome where he's got his own reality distortion field.

If he's guilty of treason, then we should all be decrying it - even if he's somehow still your boy.
You know, it's your country too. 

...
 
There certainly was a lot of screaming and raging  in this forum about Hillary Clinton's email server and emails. "Lock her up", blah blah blah. Accusations of criminal behavior and negligence of duty on the FBI's and DOJ's part for failing to prosecute. So let's not complain that Trump is being persecuted, Kurt. 

Putin clearly has some sort of control over Trump, something to do either with Trump's behavior in the past or with Putin's still-unknown contribution to Trump's election. Even Fox and the Republican party (with the exception of Rand Paul) were appalled by Trump's public rejection of the DOJ's indictment of the 12 Russians and statement that he believed Putin's denial over the findings of his own intelligence agencies. Trump realized things looked so bad that he made an even bigger fool of himself the next day with the "double-negative" walkback. (He's now trying to muddy the issue by oscillating back and forth between two opinions. He used the same tactic after the riots and death in Charlottesville, VA.)

Is there evidence that Trump has clearly committed treason? No, not yet. But Trump's behavior in Helsinki clearly falls in line with suspicions that Putin is holding him hostage. This whole entanglement with Russia is well past the point of post-election sour grapes and wishful thinking. 

Steely_D has a point. If it becomes obvious that Trump has committed crimes, why should anyone loyal Trump fan continue to support him? My father didn't closely follow the Watergate scandal as it unfolded and remained a stubbornly loyal supporter of Nixon right up until the first proof on the White House tapes that Nixon was trying to cover up the Watergate break-in. Then my dad completely turned against Nixon. Similarly, at some point Trumpistas will likely have to decide which claim to their loyalty is greater: loyalty to Trump or to our Constitution and form of government? 

Personally, there is no way I could support someone who lies and contradicts himself as much as Trump, even if I wanted everything Trump calls for and even if I thought that there was a conspiracy against him. Trump is too divisive and destructive. 

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Jul 19, 2018 - 10:19pm

  edit: this is the Michael Faul is a make or break moment 

I am guessing Trump (or his advisors) know that is going one step too far and will pull back from it. 
btw. I don't think sub-poenaing the translator is a smart move either, for the same reason. 

Ambassadors and translators must be able to rely on the frame of reference in which they do their job. Shifting the goalposts after the fact is not conducive to anything.


Steely_D

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Posted: Jul 19, 2018 - 10:09pm

 kurtster wrote:
Treason, treason, treason !!!
 
If Obama had met privately with Putin would you be cool with that? If not, then why is it OK for Trump? There's an opposite of Trump Derangement Syndrome where he's got his own reality distortion field.

If he's guilty of treason, then we should all be decrying it - even if he's somehow still your boy.
You know, it's your country too. 

Steely_D

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Posted: Jul 19, 2018 - 9:36pm

 kurtster wrote:
There is only 3 minutes that need to be watched once it starts to make the point.



 
I watched it and saw The President of the United States, speaking casually with members of the press corps directly, using coherent and well-formed sentences to address them. He steps through the topic and explains his administration position, and why it's so. He doesn't call the reporters names, or run away from questions. Instead, he leans in and asserts his knowledge and authority in a polite and firm manner.

Is there something similar that Trump has done? If not, it does indeed make a point, but maybe not the one you were thinking of.

Best President in our lifetime.


Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jul 19, 2018 - 7:28pm

 steeler wrote:
It's time to take down the Big Top.

 
Agreed. This motherfucker has to go.
steeler

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Posted: Jul 19, 2018 - 7:09pm

It's time to take down the Big Top.
Coaxial

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Posted: Jul 19, 2018 - 6:49pm

 kurtster wrote:
Just break out the firing squad already.  Former CIA director Brennan, who for some strange reason still has his top secret security clearance (and works for NBC), as does Clapper, has deemed Trump guilty of Treason.  A capital offense, right ?  I can post videos of Brennan if you don't believe me.   Just ask ...  I've seen treason mentioned in this thread so many times  it makes me dizzy(er)

So to hell with impeachment.  Impeachment is for pussies.  We all know Trump has committed treason right in front of our very eyes and we have Brennan confirming it.  What more proof do we need ?

I bet we see a national lottery for being on the firing squad.  We also know we need to use silver bullets, right ?

But we better act quickly, because with all this talk about treason an all, jeez I've even heard Pearl Harbour and Kristallnacht, too,  someone who is willing to do it for free might beat y'all to it.

Treason, treason, treason !!!

 
{#Chillpill}Easy big fellow.{#Meditate}Deep breaths.
kurtster

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Posted: Jul 19, 2018 - 6:43pm

Just break out the firing squad already.  Former CIA director Brennan, who for some strange reason still has his top secret security clearance (and works for NBC), as does Clapper, has deemed Trump guilty of Treason.  A capital offense, right ?  I can post videos of Brennan if you don't believe me.   Just ask ...  I've seen treason mentioned in this thread so many times  it makes me dizzy(er)

So to hell with impeachment.  Impeachment is for pussies.  We all know Trump has committed treason right in front of our very eyes and we have Brennan confirming it.  What more proof do we need ?

I bet we see a national lottery for being on the firing squad.  We also know we need to use silver bullets, right ?

But we better act quickly, because with all this talk about treason an all, jeez I've even heard Pearl Harbour and Kristallnacht, too,  someone who is willing to do it for free might beat y'all to it.

Treason, treason, treason !!!
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