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Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Jails, Prisons, Incarceration Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 18, 19, 20  Next
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R_P

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Posted: Jul 9, 2018 - 7:15am

Forty-Five Things I Learned in the Gulag
R_P

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Posted: Jul 3, 2018 - 11:15am

The border-to-prison pipeline
President Trump’s plan to establish more detention centers for undocumented immigrants will give a boost to private prison companies that backed Trump’s presidential campaign, The Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday.

CoreCivic and Geo Group both saw their shares spike last month after Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) announced that it will likely add 15,000 new beds for families after Trump’s executive order to detain undocumented immigrant families together, according to the newspaper.

The Trump administration is also pushing to increase the number of beds for immigrants to 52,000 from 40,000, requesting $2.8 billion for the 2019 budget year to fund the effort.

Geo Group declined to comment to the Journal. The company’s CEO, George Zoley, said during an earnings call in April that he anticipated the possibility of new contracts “as the president will be asking for a significant increase in the detention bed capacity for ICE," the outlet reported.

A CoreCivic spokesman told the Journal that the company is ready to address the administration’s changing needs.

The corporation’s CEO, Damon Hininger, said last month that “this is probably the most robust kind of sales environment we’ve seen in probably 10 years,” according to the Journal.

Both companies have relied on ICE for a significant chuck of their revenue in recent years, according to the Journal, which reported that the agency made up a quarter of CoreCivic’s revenue last year, up from 13 percent a decade earlier.

Geo Group experienced a similar rise, with ICE making up 24 percent of its recent from 10 percent in 2007.

Each of the companies donated $250,000 to Trump’s inauguration, and Geo Group last year held a leadership conference at one of Trump’s golf resorts in Florida.

Red_Dragon

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Posted: Dec 15, 2017 - 8:26am

 cc_rider wrote:

Cheaper still to educate them before they become prisoners.

 
We don't need no steenking education.

cc_rider

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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 15, 2017 - 8:09am

 Coaxial wrote:

It's big business, keeping the brother down. Cheaper to keep prisoners in hotels than in the pen...Somethings is just a little askew with the system.

 
Cheaper still to educate them before they become prisoners.
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 15, 2017 - 5:36am

 Coaxial wrote:

It's big business, keeping the brother down. Cheaper to keep prisoners in hotels than in the pen...Somethings is just a little askew with the system.

 
yes

yes it is
Coaxial

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Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles east of Paradise
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 15, 2017 - 5:27am

 miamizsun wrote:


 
It's big business, keeping the brother down. Cheaper to keep prisoners in hotels than in the pen...Somethings is just a little askew with the system.
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 15, 2017 - 5:17am


R_P

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Posted: Nov 23, 2017 - 12:42pm

They too
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Sep 1, 2017 - 6:23am

Yay for-profit prison system!
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 10:01am

Because prison is a for-profit enterprise in this country, that's why.
helenofjoy

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Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 24, 2016 - 2:03pm

 westslope wrote:

Well, that is precisely where you are wrong.  

This kind of fuzzy thinking has consequences.  Example, 50,000 dead Americans during the Vietnam War or Obama's hugely expensive socialized health care albatross.  Or the billions upon billions that socialist (sic) Americans gladly throw at the agricultural sector so it can destroy watersheds, create air pollution and contribute to a galloping obesity epidemic and reduced life expectancies.    

Even the nuclear weapons backed affirmative action ethnic cleansing project in the Holy Lands receives support because of this kind of fuzzy thinking.  I mention the Israeli nation building project because it brought you the Sept. 11th attacks and paints a target on the backs of Americans.  Though I do realize that many Americans saw the Sept. 11th attacks as a huge positive and welcome more of the same. 

Killing innocent civilians — something both Israel and the USA excel at — and ethnic cleansing enjoy long noble histories that predate modern capitalism by hundreds of thousands of years. 

The Scandinavian social democracies all have better socio-economic outcomes than the USA but it strikes me that  the vast majority of Americans have no clue as to how that happened.  Both those that identify as 'left' and the 'right' — now outdated concepts from the early 20th century.

 
Here Here! (hand clapping emoticon!)


Manbird

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Location: Oroville, Ca
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 24, 2016 - 1:15pm

 miamizsun wrote:

think of capitalism as a tool

it can be great when used properly

when in corrupt hands not so much

 
that might work in oklahoma
westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Aug 19, 2016 - 7:56am

 Steely_D wrote:

I'm thinking of capitalism in the sense of: "Capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit."
......
 
Well, that is precisely where you are wrong.  

This kind of fuzzy thinking has consequences.  Example, 50,000 dead Americans during the Vietnam War or Obama's hugely expensive socialized health care albatross.  Or the billions upon billions that socialist (sic) Americans gladly throw at the agricultural sector so it can destroy watersheds, create air pollution and contribute to a galloping obesity epidemic and reduced life expectancies.    

Even the nuclear weapons backed affirmative action ethnic cleansing project in the Holy Lands receives support because of this kind of fuzzy thinking.  I mention the Israeli nation building project because it brought you the Sept. 11th attacks and paints a target on the backs of Americans.  Though I do realize that many Americans saw the Sept. 11th attacks as a huge positive and welcome more of the same. 

Killing innocent civilians — something both Israel and the USA excel at — and ethnic cleansing enjoy long noble histories that predate modern capitalism by hundreds of thousands of years. 

The Scandinavian social democracies all have better socio-economic outcomes than the USA but it strikes me that  the vast majority of Americans have no clue as to how that happened.  Both those that identify as 'left' and the 'right' — now outdated concepts from the early 20th century.


miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 18, 2016 - 6:08pm

 aflanigan wrote:
You've built up what you may think is a rather robust logical argument, but I think there are some holes in it.

Regarding the bolded text above, Ordinary peoples' ability to judge the professional competence of experts (doctors, bridge designers, etc. etc.)  is dubious at best. How many centuries before scientific reasoning came along did we put up with things like bloodletting, burning witches for disease and crop failure, etc?

Scientific method and knowledge gives us (in theory) the ability to judge if someone is competent at their job, but few consumers possess it in the requisite degree to make an informed judgement.

Look at how many people willingly give their money to quacks like Andrew Wakefield, or "Alternative" medicine practicioners of homeopathy, etc.

Even when it comes to traditional practitioners, how is one to judge reliably whether the failure of a therapy, or some other unwanted outcome is attributable to the competence of the practitioner? If a doctor sets your broken nose improperly, and you go to complain, they could tell you you did not follow their post treatment instructions carefully, or insist that the radiologist screwed up, or some other clever excuse. Most people assume that a certain aura surrounds people with "MD" appended to their name, and would not be likely to pursue this. Online review sites can potentially help somewhat in making it easier to detect patterns of complaints, but these comments and reviews are unvetted, so we don't know how reliable they may be.

There are ways that incompetent practitioners can continue to practice. If the state medical board (a regulating agency which presumably you as a libertarian/nonaggression principle supporter are not in favor of) suspends a practitioners' license to practice in one state, they can simply move to another. Even if they get decertified in every state, they can do what Wakefield has done, i.e. become an "unfrocked" doctor, i.e. a "service provider" or "consultant". Your options 1, 2, and 3 may be the only ones in your idyllic utopia based on non-aggression, but in the real world there is at least one other.
 
if you read the thread i was referring to price/overcharging

legitimate competition usually helps keep that in check

=======

your post assumes i'm against licensing or standards in medical care

obviously i'm not but it depends on who is controlling licensing and what standards one uses for certification or practice

there's some history of the medical profession in this country that i've posted over in the health thread i think

it deals with the pre-flexnor through post-flexnor stuff

you can get an idea about it here

america went from having the highest number of doctors/health care workers per capita to the lowest

flexnor worked closely with the ama and under the auspices of raising standards they closed a massive number of medical schools

many of these schools were already transitioning to the latest science/methodology (when possible)

and predictably the majority of these were for negroes and women and deemed unfit (and i'm sure a few were, but all of them?)

the "unintended consequences" of political action?

they controlled the licensing and it was virtually impossible for minorities to get in/accepted in the remaining schools

when political overreach and bad rules/regs are used against good people how do we reel them in? (or how do we say no?)

accad touches on a lot of the history

read it and maybe chase down some of his ref material

regards

Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 18, 2016 - 4:27pm

 westslope wrote:

Agree with most of what you write Steely_D but you are wrong on one point.  It ain't necessarily 'capitalism'.  It is self interest.  

Canadian doctors get paid a fee for service and there is plenty of incentive to over-order.   Would you call Canadian socialized medicine 'capitalism'?

How about we agree to call it professional self-interest?   

 
I'm thinking of capitalism in the sense of: "Capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit."
That gets cloudy when insurance companies are involved, of course.
But, my point is that FFS medicine is diametrically opposed to the nature of making people healthier, and doesn't do anything to limit health care costs. (The limit comes when the the insurance company refuses to reimburse the doctor, and then they would reconsider what they want to order.)


And going back to the main topic, it's the same: the incentive for privately owned prisons is to make them financially profitable - and the only ways to do that are by cutting costs or increasing population.
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Aug 18, 2016 - 3:29pm

 Steely_D wrote:

Well, that very much depends on the setup.

In antiquated, obsolete Fee For Service medicine, where a doctor gets paid for everything they do to the patient, it's in the doctor's financial interest to over-order and - in truth - not cure the patient. They make more money that way. That's capitalism.
....

 
Agree with most of what you write Steely_D but you are wrong on one point.  It ain't necessarily 'capitalism'.  It is self interest.  

Canadian doctors get paid a fee for service and there is plenty of incentive to over-order.   Would you call Canadian socialized medicine 'capitalism'?

How about we agree to call it professional self-interest?   
ScottN

ScottN Avatar

Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 18, 2016 - 2:19pm

 Steely_D wrote:

Well, that very much depends on the setup.

In antiquated, obsolete Fee For Service medicine, where a doctor gets paid for everything they do to the patient, it's in the doctor's financial interest to over-order and - in truth - not cure the patient. They make more money that way. That's capitalism.

The movement in programs like Kaiser Permanente and others is prepayment. This means that, with a fixed amount of money coming in, it's in the financial interests of the company that they physicians 1) keep the members healthy 2) don't waste premiums dollars which means 2a) don't screw up and create lawsuits. Weirdly, this means that the financial goal of the patient (don't pay a lot) matches up with the company (don't let the member get sick, because that drains the coffers). Declining the necessary service is a bad thing for the member: it generates more illness, more visits to try to get the service, and more lawsuits that a legitimate necessary service wasn't provided.

Note that this is separate from giving people what they think they want because they saw it on TV. It requires a good knowledge of what people really need, what tests are useful, what likely results are - and to be good communicators so the patient doesn't think they're being cheated. 

 
A friend of mine is significantly involved at KP.  There is thankfully, some evolution on delivery, distribution of HC, as well as cost control.

Several other issues you raise deserve a more insightful commentary than I can offer.  Thanks for raising them.
Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 18, 2016 - 1:28pm

 ScottN wrote:

Like health care insurance and some other venues, there is an inherent conflict of interest when it is in the financial best interest of a service provider, to lessen, cheapen or decline the service provided.
 
Well, that very much depends on the setup.

In antiquated, obsolete Fee For Service medicine, where a doctor gets paid for everything they do to the patient, it's in the doctor's financial interest to over-order and - in truth - not cure the patient. They make more money that way. That's capitalism.

The movement in programs like Kaiser Permanente and others is prepayment. This means that, with a fixed amount of money coming in, it's in the financial interests of the company that they physicians 1) keep the members healthy 2) don't waste premiums dollars which means 2a) don't screw up and create lawsuits. Weirdly, this means that the financial goal of the patient (don't pay a lot) matches up with the company (don't let the member get sick, because that drains the coffers). Declining the necessary service is a bad thing for the member: it generates more illness, more visits to try to get the service, and more lawsuits that a legitimate necessary service wasn't provided.

Note that this is separate from giving people what they think they want because they saw it on TV. It requires a good knowledge of what people really need, what tests are useful, what likely results are - and to be good communicators so the patient doesn't think they're being cheated. 
aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 18, 2016 - 1:05pm

 miamizsun wrote:

a philosophical concept

the real problem is when you or i can't disagree or say no to bad business (or just bad ideas period)

we notice some doctor/hospital is ripping us off and simply say no thanks and go trade with another doctor/hospital with reasonable prices and service

sooner rather than later the doctor/hospital that is overcharging will start to suffer

in today's world he's got three options

1) he can go out of business but that isn't good for anyone involved, especially him and his employees

2) he can lower his fees to something reasonable that people can afford and hope that his business recovers

3) he can try and buy political favor, some lawmaker who will make a rule that you must do business his way or face state aggression

number 3 is the problem we have today

state interference on behalf of a lobby

shouldn't our leaders have our best interest at heart?

we can say what we want about politics but lobbying is still bribery

look at all the profit that doctors and insurance companies are making now

you think they have they have lobbies? {#Yes}

how many lobbyists do you and i have?

i don't have one do you?

to be fair i don't think the doctor lobby is as powerful as the insurance industry
 
You've built up what you may think is a rather robust logical argument, but I think there are some holes in it.

Regarding the bolded text above, Ordinary peoples' ability to judge the professional competence of experts (doctors, bridge designers, etc. etc.)  is dubious at best. How many centuries before scientific reasoning came along did we put up with things like bloodletting, burning witches for disease and crop failure, etc?

Scientific method and knowledge gives us (in theory) the ability to judge if someone is competent at their job, but few consumers possess it in the requisite degree to make an informed judgement.

Look at how many people willingly give their money to quacks like Andrew Wakefield, or "Alternative" medicine practicioners of homeopathy, etc.

Even when it comes to traditional practitioners, how is one to judge reliably whether the failure of a therapy, or some other unwanted outcome is attributable to the competence of the practitioner? If a doctor sets your broken nose improperly, and you go to complain, they could tell you you did not follow their post treatment instructions carefully, or insist that the radiologist screwed up, or some other clever excuse. Most people assume that a certain aura surrounds people with "MD" appended to their name, and would not be likely to pursue this. Online review sites can potentially help somewhat in making it easier to detect patterns of complaints, but these comments and reviews are unvetted, so we don't know how reliable they may be.

There are ways that incompetent practitioners can continue to practice. If the state medical board (a regulating agency which presumably you as a libertarian/nonaggression principle supporter are not in favor of) suspends a practitioners' license to practice in one state, they can simply move to another. Even if they get decertified in every state, they can do what Wakefield has done, i.e. become an "unfrocked" doctor, i.e. a "service provider" or "consultant". Your options 1, 2, and 3 may be the only ones in your idyllic utopia based on non-aggression, but in the real world there is at least one other.
 


miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 18, 2016 - 11:45am

 ScottN wrote:
And for as long as possible.  Like health care insurance and some other venues, there is an inherent conflict of interest when it is in the financial best interest of a service provider, to lessen, cheapen or decline the service provided.
 
a philosophical concept

the real problem is when you or i can't disagree or say no to bad business (or just bad ideas period)

we notice some doctor/hospital is ripping us off and simply say no thanks and go trade with another doctor/hospital with reasonable prices and service

sooner rather than later the doctor/hospital that is overcharging will start to suffer

in today's world he's got three options

1) he can go out of business but that isn't good for anyone involved, especially him and his employees

2) he can lower his fees to something reasonable that people can afford and hope that his business recovers

3) he can try and buy political favor, some lawmaker who will make a rule that you must do business his way or face state aggression

number 3 is the problem we have today

state interference on behalf of a lobby

shouldn't our leaders have our best interest at heart?

we can say what we want about politics but lobbying is still bribery

look at all the profit that doctors and insurance companies are making now

you think they have they have lobbies? {#Yes}

how many lobbyists do you and i have?

i don't have one do you?

to be fair i don't think the doctor lobby is as powerful as the insurance industry



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