I am glad the ludicrous nature of gay conversion therapy was brought up in another thread.
Correlates to my struggle with transgenders and surgery. Firstly, I
have a very strong belief that we should all have the freedom to express
who we are and be proud of it. It is a core value of individualism and
what makes us all unique. Our opinions on LGBQT and Hetero people are
absolutely moot, we are what we are and must learn to exist and co exist
with each other as we were born. Which is why I am against hormone
therapy and plastic surgery to alter one's gender if they do not
identify as such. If you are a man who identifies as a woman, be that.
Dress how you want to dress, talk how you want to talk, you just be
you. Same goes for a woman who identifies as a man, be that. Just
because medical technology allows for you to artificially change
genders, does it mean you should? Not to mention the moral obligations
that are mostly not met for obvious reasons for future love interest and
whether one divulges their birth gender or not. Just as you should not
attempt to change your sexuality, why is it ok to change your gender?
And why is it not ok to change your identity and cultural appropriate
for all other examples except gender? Rachel Dolenz got in a lot of
trouble for passing as black, Elizabeth Warren as Native American and so
forth. People are intentionally blinding themselves because they
identify as being blind, they are also purposely amputating limbs for
the same reason (these things have happened, look them up). Why can't
we just all be happy with who we are and live it?
And conversely we have the same responsibility to accept others as they are. 

In other words be true to yourself.

 Anyway, that is where I have finally landed on that and feel quite comfortable with it.

New legislation in Kansas would pay students a $2500 bounty for reporting on transgender classmates using the “wrong” bathroom.

In Kansas, the “Student Physical Privacy Act” effectively places a bounty on the state’s transgender student population. Senate Bill 513 and House Bill 2737 together known as the “Student Physical Privacy Act” mandates that any student who witnesses a transgender schoolmate heading into a bathroom that doesn’t match the gender they were assigned at birth can sue their school for $2,500.

The proposed legislation would apply not only to public schools, but all public universities in the state as well, guaranteeing that anyone who saw someone transgender in the bathroom could sue their school for $2,500 for every time that it happened.

(...)

The Advocate reports that similar bills in South Dakota and Tennessee that would restrict transgender students’ bathroom access recently failed.

Trump’s Transgender Military Ban and Lessons from a Lifetime of Gender-Policing

By Masha Gessen
January 23, 2019

Supreme Court allows Trump's partial ban on transgender troops in military to take effect

 p4jkafla wrote: 
not mine.

 haresfur wrote: 

Transferred from another topic:

 p4jkafla wrote:  
I'm so sorry about all that shit. Although Australia is still far from where it needs to be, even our conservative somewhat homophobic ex-Prime Minister Tony Abbott, was accepting of our highest-ranking transgender member of the Australian Defence Force, Cate McGregor. I think it was he could see her as a person, not a label.

 R_P wrote:

Sadly, I was wrong. The reality is that the trans community is being relentlessly attacked by this president. The leader of our nation has shown no regard for an already marginalized and struggling community. He has ignored our humanity. He has insulted our dignity. He has made trans people into political pawns as he whips up animus against us in an attempt to energize the most right-wing segment of his party, claiming his anti-transgender policies are meant to “protect the country.” This is politics at its worst. It is unacceptable, it is upsetting, and it has deeply, personally hurt me.

 haresfur wrote: 

 p4jkafla wrote: 
Thanks for that. Nice to see you around.

Healthy Mice Born From Same-Sex Parents For the First Time

When scientists made immature human egg cells from donated blood, some speculated that human reproduction was on the verge of a massive disruption.

The future is now.

Last week, a team from China completely overhauled natural reproduction, using genetic engineering to make mice born from same-sex parents for the first time. Babies from two moms were indistinguishable from mouse pups generated through good-old-means: not only were they healthy, they went on to give birth to mouse pups of their own.

Those born with the DNA of two dads—with the help of a surrogate—survived through birth but only lived a few days, underscoring the fact that the new technology is still in its infancy.

A masterful technological tour-de-force aside, the study pinpoints critically important genetic factors that allow an embryo to develop normally. It’s like cracking the biological Enigma code of reproduction—a set of genetic instructions that allow an embryo to survive, regardless of how it’s made.

“This shows us what’s possible,” said senior author Dr. Wei Li at the Chinese Academy of Sciences. The team described their results in Cell Stem Cell.

Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic
Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male

 miamizsun wrote: 
Amen.  Me and a friend of mine were talking about this and he described a situation he had with his daughter who is a lesbian and hangs out with a lot of transgender friends and my friend overheard them talking about Caitlyn and he offered how Bruce Jenner inspired him in his youth and how he was such a hero to him and one of the transgender people in the group got up in his face for daring to mention him under the "dead" name, calling him names, really angry.  Suffice  to say, he did not stand for this and ended up lecturing her on basic civility and human kindness on a one to one level and really that is what it comes down to.  Life and personal interactions are complex and nuanced and the context of each personal encounter is fluid and unique.  There are occasions under the flag of social justice where some people lose sight of this and you have some type Orwellian facism placed over our everyday language that can be quite dangerous.

 marko86 wrote: 
currently i think the science (biology, neurology, etc.) may be complicated

what i'm referring to is the social ramifications of making a lot of specialized vague rules backed by force

and the consequences of that force (possibly lives and careers ruined)

preferences of identification (sexual and otherwise) are personal and could evolve

discriminating against someone who doesn't recognize or feel exactly like you do is a slippery slope

if i identify as a male professionally or m-f, but on the weekends i identify as something other, that's my preference and my business

maybe i want to identify based solely on how i feel at the moment

is that possible? it very well could be

should i expect to punish others for not immediately recognizing this?

my preferences may float my boat, but may not be your cup of tea

restrooms? if it is a one hit there shouldn't be any mystery/conflict

public? i don't know, maybe just base them on age

i'm open to any and all ideas here

i'd rather not over-criminalize or even criminalize based on preferences/feelings/emotions

 miamizsun wrote: 
I do not see it as unnecessarily complicated, because it is complicated.  We have seen the consequences of the over simplification in our social system and the allowing trans to use which bathroom they choose was a step towards acknowledging that. 

I skimmed through this thread and I did not find it all that decisive, especially as compared to some other topics. I suppose being in the CIS majority has its advantages, but a least there are those who think about these things..

One of the more interesting ones of the radio lab podcast was the the Indian female runner who got banned from Olympics The Olympics had ditched the old XY/XX standard in favor of just testing testosterone, of which she had very high levels, naturally. Their solution was novel, but fair.

 marko86 wrote: 
i think a lot of this conversation in general has gotten unnecessarily complicated and divisive

what are the logical consequences of over-complicating a social system?

maybe we should just try practicing broad based non-violent human rights and when it comes to preferences just mind our own beeswax

RadioLab just had a really good series on the topic call Gonads. It is complex to say the least.

:laugh: