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Length: 4:20
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They find it all a different story
No concern, for wheels are turning
Turn again and turn towards this time
All she asks the strength to hold me
Then again the same old story
Word will travel oh so quickly
Travel first and lean towards this time
Oh, I'll break them down, no mercy shown
''(in the original New Order version: "I'll break them all ...")''
Heaven knows, it's got to be this time
Watching her, these things she said
The times she cried, too frail to wake this time
Oh, I'll break them down, no mercy shown
Heaven knows, it's got to be this time
Avenues all lined with trees
Picture me and then you start watching
Watching forever
Forever, watching love grow
Forever, letting me go
Forever
Bopped many a night away in The Hacienda Club in Manch to these guys, and many others.
I know how lucky I was..
I have an old and tattered tshirt celebrating ‘FAC51’. I only wish I could have visited in The Hacienda’s heyday. Alas I was a pre-teen. Born a tad too late and on the opposite side of the pond. The memories you must have!
![banana jam](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/bananajam.gif)
Sounded good till he started singing. Annoying.
Sounds like they forgot to give him the mic and he’s still in the bathroom.
The whole group has kind of an echo-y, muddy sound here. I usually don't like lots of echo (like in the preceding Lennon song), but here I think it's done right and works well.
I know how lucky I was..
Sounds like they forgot to give him the mic and he’s still in the bathroom.
Pretty sure this was an actual Joy Division song - think it was on that Heart and Soul boxset - (Googles...) - yes, a demo version on disc 3 👍
Or maybe I'm dreaming the whole experience. Which tends to happen , these days.
the lyrics seem more Curtis (ie better, darker) than Sumner
Or maybe I'm dreaming the whole experience. Which tends to happen , these days.
WHFS forever!
(1) Catch Weasel on WTMD (2) wonder why WHFS is on here see: feastyourearsthefilm.com
![crown](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/crown.gif)
Nowadays they all woulda updated their status posting how great it all was and given em a couple standing ovations.
Although I recall Joy Division sounded very good when I saw them at Uni back in the day. Also New Order were fine at Rock City (Nottingham) a year or so later. So perhaps this is an indoor vs outdoor thing?
Nowadays they all woulda updated their status posting how great it all was and given em a couple standing ovations.
...
I've also heard sound at outdoor venues with excellent gear that totally sucked. A number of shows at Shoreline Amphitheater come to mind — including New Order, who were pretty much unlistenable there too. Maybe they take their own near-deaf mixer on tour with them. Lots of artists do...
Indeed. And in New Order's case, though I love them dearly, they really do benefit heavily from recording in the studio. I bought their live BBC disc, and Barney was so out of tune through the whole show it was embarrassing to listen to. Bad mixing may have been a mercy.
![](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/icon_lol.gif)
For what it's worth, in my limited time mixing bands in high school and several kinds of performance as a volunteer in the local community theatre, mixing outside is hard, man. There are essentially no acoustics to speak of; the sound bounces off the ground and goes away forever, unless there are hills or valleys nearby to reflect everything back at you out of phase. You get frequencies at one end of the range getting absorbed by the first few rows of bodies and the rest travelling on and on and on. If you're in the back, forget about it, you're just going to hear a tinny garbled mess, and there's not much the mixer can do to compensate for that.
Edit: You can compensate with multiple banks of speakers set back from the stage, keep the overall volume low, but then you have to make sure that each bank is synced so that the signals from the stage all get played at the "same time" (actually you have to lag the speakers further out slightly to account for the travel time of the sound waves) and you need great gear for that, and a really smart tech running it. Tricky.
Nice post. For a number of years, I was associated with an outdoor festival in California (Strawberry) that had a fabulous mixing crew. They used stacks midway back that were timed perfectly (that part is just math, really) & delivered a mix that was like being inside a giant pair of headphones, pretty much anywhere in the crowd. So it *can* be done, but it takes great gear & excellent ears. Like you noted, it probably also works a lot better at moderate volume levels (this was a mostly-acoustic festival).
I've also heard sound at outdoor venues with excellent gear that totally sucked. A number of shows at Shoreline Amphitheater come to mind — including New Order, who were pretty much unlistenable there too. Maybe they take their own near-deaf mixer on tour with them. Lots of artists do...
We tried standing outside, which helped a bit, but not much, but it was raining. We spent the rest of that evening in our van hearing the set (including this track I think) as a faint hum in the distance.
Why is it that so many festival/gig sound engineers don't have ears that work? It is not acceptable to just turn up everything to 11, it is more important to actually be a sound engineer and not sit there and try to look cool.
/rant
For what it's worth, in my limited time mixing bands in high school and several kinds of performance as a volunteer in the local community theatre, mixing outside is hard, man. There are essentially no acoustics to speak of; the sound bounces off the ground and goes away forever, unless there are hills or valleys nearby to reflect everything back at you out of phase. You get frequencies at one end of the range getting absorbed by the first few rows of bodies and the rest travelling on and on and on. If you're in the back, forget about it, you're just going to hear a tinny garbled mess, and there's not much the mixer can do to compensate for that.
Edit: You can compensate with multiple banks of speakers set back from the stage, keep the overall volume low, but then you have to make sure that each bank is synced so that the signals from the stage all get played at the "same time" (actually you have to lag the speakers further out slightly to account for the travel time of the sound waves) and you need great gear for that, and a really smart tech running it. Tricky.
Good one man! : )
probably one of the greatest songs of all time
how did I ever give it only 9
Ha ha, I had exact same reaction.
These guys have always been weird this way. This song itself is an example of that; the only extant recording (that I know of) of Joy Division doing this song is a fragment with the vocals buried in the mix for half of it. They started off rough live and never got that much better. The one live disc of New Order's that I bought was flat-out (pun definitely intended) embarrassing, Sumner couldn't find a note to save his life, and the mixing seemed like an afterthought.
But man, the songs are so very great.
We tried standing outside, which helped a bit, but not much, but it was raining. We spent the rest of that evening in our van hearing the set (including this track I think) as a faint hum in the distance.
Why is it that so many festival/gig sound engineers don't have ears that work? It is not acceptable to just turn up everything to 11, it is more important to actually be a sound engineer and not sit there and try to look cool.
/rant
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THIS THEN PLEASE JUSTIFY YOUR EXISTENCE
My wife loves them, and I love my wife.
Well, they oozed something....
I even like the happy dappy stuff.
probably one of the greatest songs of all time
how did I ever give it only 9
I like it!
probably one of the greatest songs of all time
how did I ever give it only 9
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THIS THEN PLEASE JUSTIFY YOUR EXISTENCE
I make a nice quiche.......
Good to hear on RP, beats U2 any day...
..... it most certainly does :))
Good to hear on RP, beats U2 any day...
![{#Drummer} {#Drummer}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/icon_drummer.gif)
![{#Yes} {#Yes}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/icon_yes.gif)
![{#Yes} {#Yes}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/icon_yes.gif)
I had the privilege of seeing them live in the summer 87 in Århus, Denmark... their live sound was raw and Hooks bass ripping... good times
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Hook%2C_Morris%2C_Sumner_in_New_Order.jpg)
We were mother-fucking Joy Division -- what're YOU looking at?!?!?!?!?
One of the perfect songs from all the many years I have loved music.
Definitely a song performed by Joy Division and I am sure they played it when I saw them live.
This ^^^^^
Yes Joy Division did play it live, in fact there is a live version of them playing it on the Still album.
Like many of the early New Order tracks this was essentially a Joy Division track recorded under the guise of New Order owing to the untimely death of Ian Curtis.
LOVE LOVE LOVE RP !!!!!!
There was/is musical mediocrity in every decade - the 1980s did not significantly exceed any other decade in that respect - it was just more visible thanks to MTV and that sentiment still exists thanks to the "Classic Rock" mentality. Sophistication and taste are rarely prerequisites for making rock 'n' roll but New Order was pretty fun.
One of the perfect songs from all the many years I have loved music.
Definitely a song performed by Joy Division and I am sure they played it when I saw them live.
I don't care what anybody says, New Order sucks. IMHO
![{#Angel} {#Angel}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/eusa_angel.gif)
Hmmm, that makes as much sense as me declaring I hate the English language because it enables you to write such drivel.
![{#Wink} {#Wink}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/icon_wink.gif)
I don't care what anybody says, New Order sucks. IMHO
![{#Angel} {#Angel}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/eusa_angel.gif)
Do you feel old? Wait, before you answer...
![New Order, circa 2007](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Hook%2C_Morris%2C_Sumner_in_New_Order.jpg)
Now, do you feel old?
You bastard.
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THIS THEN PLEASE JUSTIFY YOUR EXISTENCE
TO YOU?
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THIS THEN PLEASE JUSTIFY YOUR EXISTENCE
To give you someone to feel superior to?
I would run with an enigma... love this song...
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THIS THEN PLEASE JUSTIFY YOUR EXISTENCE
It's up there with "Teenage Kicks" (Undertones) and "Say What You Want" (Texas) as 'perfectly' constructed songs. I'm not a musician, so I can't really explain what I mean, other than I could listen to them again and again. While I'm list building, there's also "Tempted" (Squeeze) and "Don't Stop Believin'" (Journey) to go on the perfect songs list.
Any other fans of Ceremony might be interested to know that Radiohead did a very listenable cover of the song (and I hate covers). You can find it on YouTube.
Lastly, there's plenty of discussion elsewhere on whether this track was officially a Joy Division track or a New Order track. I think it's a Joy Division song first released on a New Order album, but written and first performed by Joy Division. The lyrics are Ian Curtis' and a live version can be found on Joy Divisions' "Still" album with Ian on vocal of course.
I grew up in the north of England in the '70s and regret never having seen Joy Division live during those days.
Did see plenty of other good bands though... :-)
Pink Floyd and Hawkwind played my school hall. Who else can say that?
Do you feel old? Wait, before you answer...
![New Order, circa 2007](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Hook%2C_Morris%2C_Sumner_in_New_Order.jpg)
Now, do you feel old?
Thanks for this; I've been meaning to dredge up the lyrics to this song for a long time now.
peacockangel wrote:
This is why events unnerve me,
They find it all, a different story,
Notice whom for wheels are turning,
Turn again and turn towards this time,
All she ask's the strength to hold me,
Then again the same old story,
World will travel, oh so quickly,
Travel first and lean towards this time. Oh, I'll break them down, no mercy shown,
Heaven knows, it's got to be this time,
Watching her, these things she said,
The times she cried,
Too frail to wake this time. Oh I'll break them down, no mercy shown
Heaven knows, it's got to be this time,
Avenues all lined with trees,
Picture me and then you start watching,
Watching forever, forever,
Watching love grow, forever,
Letting me know, forever.
..thx indeed!..first NO single, released in 1981..reflects more of the darkness of their Joy Division origins..
Hoka hey Bobert, you have more spectacular nights in your canyons than you'll find in alphabet town these recent years, a weakened pulse
Never the same after Giuliani - I much preferred the edge of the 70's and 80's. Damn.
( btw - I met Seldom Seen. Unfortunately Hayduke (the Abbey Hayduke) is no longer with us. HD2 roams the east end, it seems. )
Hoka hey Bobert, you have more spectacular nights in your canyons than you'll find in alphabet town these recent years, a weakened pulse
Seemed like a dark pulsing city, back then...
Beats the hell out of the vocal line on the incomplete live recording of this song by Joy Division (which as far as I know is the only recording of this song with Ian Curtis on vocals). The Sound tech had the vocals buried for most of the song. Damn shame.
Thanks for playing it.
Oh yes we do, metaphorically... and this song squeezes mine... I can feel it!
Better than an enema.
beautifully raw
![{#Bananajam} {#Bananajam}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/bananajam.gif)
![{#Music} {#Music}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/icon_music.gif)
They find it all, a different story,
Notice whom for wheels are turning,
Turn again and turn towards this time,
All she ask's the strength to hold me,
Then again the same old story,
World will travel, oh so quickly,
Travel first and lean towards this time. Oh, I'll break them down, no mercy shown,
Heaven knows, it's got to be this time,
Watching her, these things she said,
The times she cried,
Too frail to wake this time. Oh I'll break them down, no mercy shown
Heaven knows, it's got to be this time,
Avenues all lined with trees,
Picture me and then you start watching,
Watching forever, forever,
Watching love grow, forever,
Letting me know, forever.
Thanks for this; I've been meaning to dredge up the lyrics to this song for a long time now.
This song squeezes my gizzards... love it...
![{#Stupid} {#Stupid}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/icon_stupid.gif)
![{#Wave} {#Wave}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/icon_wave.gif)
Try Bad Lieutenant. It's Sumner and Cunningham. You might like "Never cry another tear"
![{#Mrgreen} {#Mrgreen}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Whoa! Good call — I somehow never noticed that before, but it's definitely there with this song (and Interpol's "Rest My Chemistry" comes to mind).
Still - NEW ORDER is a great band.
This song means nothing to me, though!
NOTHING AT ALL!
![{#Clap} {#Clap}](https://img.radioparadise.com/emoji/icon_clap.gif)
Driving at night in my friends car at 17. Their 'last' gig at Reading in 1989 etc etc..
Still - NEW ORDER is a great band.
This song means nothing to me, though!
NOTHING AT ALL!
This song is "1"