As I've posted several times, the problem is that most of the younger cops(Iraq and Afghanistan vets) have been trained by the military to treat every member of the community as threats and enemies, no questions asked, rather than honest citizens.

  When I was growing up here, the cops were friendly and members of the community.

 Now they are psychotic assholes who are looking for ANY reason to exercise their belligerence.

 islander wrote: 
What was the response to your statement that they were conducting their "exercise" on private property? I'd have been down at the PD/city council/mayor's office raising several kinds of hell after that, but that's me. Yes, their attitude ain't what it used to be; and it ain't an improvement.

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
I'm with RD here. Flush with cash from red light cameras, the locals here have outfitted all the beat cops with full tactical gear and big black SUVs with dark windows, pushbars and about a dozen antennas. There has been a notable shift in tone when dealing when them. We used to let them train in our parking lot, but have done a lot of construction and now have substantially less lot available. They used to check in with us and let us know what was going on for these training sessions. Recently they blocked off a major portion of our lot and had lights and sirens going with lots of activity. It scared several of our customers. I approached them to see what was up and was ordered away, then after moving back was told "This is a training exercise, you don't need to be involved in them, we prefer to not have them witnessed".  I explained that they were on private property as our guest and I didn't mind as long as they checked in and used more remote sections of the lot. I also pointed out all the cameras that were recording everything.  It wasn't tense, but it wasn't friendly. I can't really say that the gearing up caused the change in attitude, but it certainly coincides. I'm pretty comfortable asserting my rights and like being friendly with the local law (why we let them train here), but it used to be a lot more comfortable talking to a guy in dress blues. Telling a guy in all black gear, with a bullet proof vest and a shotgun on his shoulder (they frequently exit their SUVs with all black "militaristic" style shotguns), that he needs to check in with me on my property did give me a few butterflies. I also made sure I was standing in full view of 2 cameras.

I want our cops to be vigilant and safe. But 90% of the crime in this town is traffic, and the majority of the rest is shoplifting at the mall. I just don't see the need for that gear, and I think it makes them behave differently. There have been a couple of high profile police killings (cops getting killed) in this region in the last few years, and I understand that makes them jumpy. But they are the professionals charged with keeping order. If they get jumpy, then so does everyone else.  If the first tool in your toolkit is a hammer, then every problem is going to look like a nail.   

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
Yeah, I think it does.  I never met a cop that actually thought of him or herself as part of the government.  Part of the community, someone hired to enforce the laws and protect the community, yes.  But part of some big picture to act like say the Chinese, the North Koreans, the Russians?  Not hardly.  To believe that would be believing in some master plan that just doesn't exist.  Sorry, but I still feel pretty free here and having a police force that can handle the people that take every little thing to the extreme for whatever reason, or don't pay any attention to the rules is one of the reasons why. 

 RASPUTIN wrote: 
Can't speak for OV but for my part, it ain't about the money honey. It's about militarizing the police and why anyone thinks that's a good thing. I understand your tactical argument, but we both know there's a lot more that comes with that "Homeland Security" money than that. Local police have now become utterly comfortable suckling at the federal teat and all that that implies. Your (and others) desire to protect the lives of cops is being used by some to create something sinister. Does that make me paranoid? Maybe. I can live with that.

oldviolin wrote:
I saw a lot of money spent over the years and most of it was grant money from Homeland Security. Didn't cost a dime out of the county tax vault. Some good, some not so good. All I'm saying is 2500 for a vehicle like that to get you closer to a bad situation seems like a good idea to me. All the money and benifits in the world don't mean much to a dead cop's family. Your average department has to spend millions on computer systems and communications equipment and you never hear a complaint about that, but spend 2500 on something that is actually designed to keep the people using it safe and people bitch about that? Fuck, they spend more than that a year for vet bills on the dope and bomb dogs that also cost more than that truck. I always have to ask, what's the point where it's not cost effective to keep your people safe? Where's the cap you tell some guy you're not worth the money it would cost to try and make sure you live through this shitty mission we're sending you on? I know there are financial limits and responsibilities to tax payers, but 2500? Really?

 ScottN wrote: 
Yes, that is a good gig.  I got it backwards - AVG = $84,333.00, Median = $90K, for "Police Officers".

 RASPUTIN wrote: 
Like I said - it can be parked.

Actually they do have rubber track pads designed to keep them from damaging roads.

Red_Dragon wrote:
Na. Those piss off the DOT because the tracks rip up the asphalt. Let's not go nutty.

 oldviolin wrote: 
werd

 Red_Dragon wrote:OK is ready for an escalated armed civil police force.  I am going to call the mayor and see if the budget in OKC can handle a few nukes.

 Proclivities wrote:Yeah, like I said in my post I didn't vet the stat.  Is it a mean or median average?  I didn't probe.  In any event it's more than the NYPD and a good gig (apparently) if you can get it.

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
who needs a head when war is all you've got to count on? Money aint got nuttin' on death...well, if you don't count the coins on the eyes thing...

 oldviolin wrote: 
Those warheads cost extra.

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
15? That thing is tactical nuke compatible. Now what?

 Red_Dragon wrote: 

Don't worry, won't be long now.

 RASPUTIN wrote: 
Well hell, let's give 'em these. They can park one at the station house and take out any crazy within 15 miles.

 

 ScottN wrote: 
PANYNJ (Port Authority) Employee Payroll Info is available here.  A general sort and scan of the spreadsheet for 2012 shows mostly upper management and higher-ranking officers as having the six-figure salaries.  The average pay for a "Police Officer" appears to be $90,000.00.

 RASPUTIN wrote: 
Factoid.  I do think the disparity between a guy walking the airport at JFK and a NYPD street cop is a bit out of line. Airport police very rarely have to face an armed suspect.  When they do, it's national news  Street cops in NYC likely face this regularly.  Plus, who knows, this "factoid" may not be true? I didn't personally reconfirm it.

As for public vs. private sector jobs, again factoid.  It is a reversal from, say, twenty years ago.  Corporate America seems to be shrinking the middle class while government jobs (usually) do the right thing by their employees.

ScottN wrote:
You say that like it's a bad thing.