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Index »
Radio Paradise/General »
General Discussion »
Climate Change
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Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... , 132, 133, 134 Next |
dionysius

Location: The People's Republic of Austin Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 30, 2009 - 10:28am |
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oldviolin wrote: The extreme politics played with lack of consensus among dissenting opinions.
There is no lack of consensus, really, The denial game is to manufacture a seeming lack of consensus. There is no equivalence between the two "sides" in this matter—one is right and the other simply wrong.
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oldviolin

Location: esse quam videri Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 30, 2009 - 10:26am |
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dionysius wrote:
What do you base your opinion on?
The extreme politics played with lack of consensus among dissenting opinions.
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dionysius

Location: The People's Republic of Austin Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 30, 2009 - 10:22am |
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oldviolin wrote:Bogus Pollution however- very much human and serious
IMO of course...
What do you base your opinion on?
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oldviolin

Location: esse quam videri Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 30, 2009 - 10:21am |
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Bogus Pollution however- very much human and serious
IMO of course...
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dionysius

Location: The People's Republic of Austin Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 30, 2009 - 10:20am |
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musik_knut

Location: Third Stone From The Sun Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 - 1:18pm |
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MrsHobieJoe wrote: MrsHobie, Thanks for the links. The Guardian one was instructive: on the one hand, the emails were obtained illegally. Fair. But not a reasonable defense if the emails show a pattern of deception in order to massage data agreeable to preferred outcomes. Again, no defense in the scientific community can be offered if data is fudged or manipulated. On the other hand, The Guardian, or I should say the author of the article, points to the 3, perhaps 4, scientists caught up in a potentially explosive scam and ponders if that is the extent of this charade within the community that declares global warming an absolute. What is bothersome is that the lab where the deceit may have taken hold is one of the labs The UN leans on for guidance on the matter. From that guidance, come announcements of dread and doom: you have less than two hours before your skin's sloughing accelerates to an uncontrollable pace *I always snickered at the drop dead certainty of such tight time limits...40 days or 6 months or whatever time was set with such specificity* And then, no matter how or why the emails were obtained, we have a serious question on the 'hockey stick curve' the 'curve' Al Gore trumpets in his 'An Inconvenient Truth' as the last-brick-in-place that solidifies the certainty of global warming and by his endless and monotonous droning, ends the discussion and shoos away all skeptics or naysayers. Seems to me the emails now present an inconvenient moment. mk
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dionysius

Location: The People's Republic of Austin Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 - 1:15pm |
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MrsHobieJoe wrote: From this here Torygraph: "The overwhelming majority of scientists believe the global warming is real and the result of human activity, but a vocal majority maintains that the science is not proven." Two majorities?  This... mistake...is FOXNoose-worthy. Almost missed it, because the brain reads the correct "minority" in passing. And, as we know, only minorities are vocal.
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MrsHobieJoe

Location: somewhere in Europe Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 - 1:07pm |
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musik_knut wrote:
This can only be seen as extremely damaging. It is from two British Labs that much of the certainty, a word used advisedly, on global warming, is drawn. Those two labs, as I understand it, are 2 of the 4 labs from which The UN makes an endless series of the sky-is-falling declarations on the matter.
Flying post as I get through some domesic stuff. Here are some reports from a couple of highly respected British newspapers at either end of the political spectrum. From our newspaper of choice- The Guardian, which is left leaning, sandal wearing etc. We actually pay for it unlike some RP posters!!
From the right wing Daily Telegraph (known as the "Torygraph" in our household).
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musik_knut

Location: Third Stone From The Sun Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:46pm |
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MrsHobieJoe wrote:
I did read some of the info this morning. I said one email EXPOSE (ie the University of East Anglia expose). I know you are a scientist. I studied some of the scientific papers on climate change 20 years ago (only it was identified solely as rising sea level at that point) when I was taking my degree in Geography. There is some discussion of events over the last few days in one of the global warming threads. I agree that the information is damaging and very poor behaviour on the part of the scientists involved and some information has been discredited but you can't just take out the whole shooting match on that basis.
In fairness HJ will be better placed to discuss this later when he is around as I don't keep as up to date as he does and I don't get time to read as much information as him these days so I haven't followed every blow in the saga.
This can only be seen as extremely damaging. It is from two British Labs that much of the certainty, a word used advisedly, on global warming, is drawn. Those two labs, as I understand it, are 2 of the 4 labs from which The UN makes an endless series of the sky-is-falling declarations on the matter.
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musik_knut

Location: Third Stone From The Sun Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:43pm |
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Manipulation of evidence:I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline. Private doubts about whether the world really is heating up: The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate. Suppression of evidence: Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise. He's not in at the moment - minor family crisis. Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don't have his new email address. We will be getting Caspar to do likewise. Fantasies of violence against prominent Climate Sceptic scientists: Next time I see Pat Michaels at a scientific meeting, I'll be tempted to beat the crap out of him. Very tempted. Attempts to disguise the inconvenient truth of the Medieval Warm Period (MWP): ......Phil and I have recently submitted a paper using about a dozen NH records that fit this category, and many of which are available nearly 2K back-I think that trying to adopt a timeframe of 2K, rather than the usual 1K, addresses a good earlier point that Peck made w/ regard to the memo, that it would be nice to try to "contain" the putative "MWP", even if we don't yet have a hemispheric mean reconstruction available that far back.... And, perhaps most reprehensibly, a long series of communications discussing how best to squeeze dissenting scientists out of the peer review process. How, in other words, to create a scientific climate in which anyone who disagrees with AGW can be written off as a crank, whose views do not have a scrap of authority. "This was the danger of always criticising the skeptics for not publishing in the "peer-reviewed literature". Obviously, they found a solution to that-take over a journal! So what do we do about this? I think we have to stop considering "Climate Research" as a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal. We would also need to consider what we tell or request of our more reasonable colleagues who currently sit on the editorial board...What do others think?" "I will be emailing the journal to tell them I'm having nothing more to do with it until they rid themselves of this troublesome editor.""It results from this journal having a number of editors. The responsible one for this is a well-known skeptic in NZ. He has let a few papers through by Michaels and Gray in the past. I've had words with Hans von Storch about this, but got nowhere. Another thing to discuss in Nice !" ~~~~~~~~~~~ Two that really caught my attention: the attempt to disguise the MWP, a period of considerably greater global temperatures than exist today. Since that period was well before the Industrial Revolution and with considerably fewer humans inhabiting Earth, we can't have that getting in the way. No, that would raise too many questions, which of course, it does. And then, to discuss how to circumvent peer review. An absolute NO NO in the science community. That is a real NO NO, not ever, ever, ever.
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MrsHobieJoe

Location: somewhere in Europe Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:39pm |
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musik_knut wrote:
One email? Scores upon scores of emails. Some of them show concern that the climate is not acting as their fraudulent models and software predict. One email? Scores... But don't take my word on this. I'm just making it up as I go along...not. That's not my way of reporting anything in the sciences... If you read the emails (EMAILS as in scores), you find that the fraudulent attempts to phony up the data were well coordinated with political measures in mind. As a scientist, I understand the severity of fudged data, or the manipulation of data to coax a predetermined outcome. Such activities are damned in the science community. As well they must be.
I did read some of the info this morning. I said one email EXPOSE (ie the University of East Anglia expose). I know you are a scientist. I studied some of the scientific papers on climate change 20 years ago (only it was identified solely as rising sea level at that point) when I was taking my degree in Geography. There is some discussion of events over the last few days in one of the global warming threads. I agree that the information is damaging and very poor behaviour on the part of the scientists involved and some information has been discredited but you can't just take out the whole shooting match on that basis. In fairness HJ will be better placed to discuss this later when he is around as I don't keep as up to date as he does and I don't get time to read as much information as him these days so I haven't followed every blow in the saga.
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musik_knut

Location: Third Stone From The Sun Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:33pm |
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MrsHobieJoe wrote: Oh FFS. One email expose does not "bust" over twenty years of scientific research. You really need to see the politics and the science separately.
One email? Scores upon scores of emails. Some of them show concern that the climate is not acting as their fraudulent models and software predict. One email? Scores... But don't take my word on this. I'm just making it up as I go along...not. That's not my way of reporting anything in the sciences... If you read the emails (EMAILS as in scores), you find that the fraudulent attempts to phony up the data were well coordinated with political measures in mind. As a scientist, I understand the severity of fudged data, or the manipulation of data to coax a predetermined outcome. Such activities are damned in the science community. As well they must be.
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HazzeSwede

Location: Hammerdal Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:29pm |
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Following Bills advice I will just,,,  - Growing populations and rising living standards helped drive emissions ever upwards during the second half of the 20th century. In the first years of the new century, China's emissions overtook those of the US.
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MrsHobieJoe

Location: somewhere in Europe Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:27pm |
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musik_knut wrote:Busted! If you have not read the emails from one to another on climate change, where in many of the emails, there is a conspiracy to doctor the data, then you should. The whole climate change data base being used by, notably, The UN, in the various declarations of woe and doom, as from the ever babbling Al Gore, is a fraud of science. For Mr. Gore, user of the now infamous 'hockey stick curve' to demonstrate rapid warming, an independent researcher found that no matter what data was entered into the program that gave rise to the 'hockey stick curve' , the 'stick' acted the same. The program itself is a piece of fraudulent science. This scientific voodoo with plans to dump emails in order to avoid a paper trail in the conspiracy, with doctored data and programs designed to yield desired results/data, is being hailed as one of the greatest acts of science fraud in history. Busted!
Oh FFS. One email expose does not "bust" over twenty years of scientific research. You really need to see the politics and the science separately.
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musik_knut

Location: Third Stone From The Sun Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:23pm |
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Busted! If you have not read the emails from one to another on climate change, where in many of the emails, there is a conspiracy to doctor the data, then you should. The whole climate change data base being used by, notably, The UN, in the various declarations of woe and doom, as from the ever babbling Al Gore, is a fraud of science. For Mr. Gore, user of the now infamous 'hockey stick curve' to demonstrate rapid warming, an independent researcher found that no matter what data was entered into the program that gave rise to the 'hockey stick curve' , the 'stick' acted the same. The program itself is a piece of fraudulent science. This scientific voodoo with plans to dump emails in order to avoid a paper trail in the conspiracy, with doctored data and programs designed to yield desired results/data, is being hailed as one of the greatest acts of science fraud in history. Busted!
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HazzeSwede

Location: Hammerdal Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 - 11:26am |
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Sea level rise could cost port cities $28 trillionCNN
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Zep

Location: Funkytown 
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Posted:
Nov 23, 2009 - 3:58pm |
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Rod wrote: A lot of work is being done on currents, but there are significant technological hurdles to overcome. The most significant is getting the energy back along the grid to land. These sites typically need to be in deep water in order to avail themselves of a good current flow, and that gets farther away from shore. Still, it's very cool.
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Rod

Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 23, 2009 - 12:45pm |
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Zep wrote: Do you know anything about this one? It sounds very promising. Not temperature driven, but it uses slow water currents to create energy. I originally posetd this in the Solar/WindGeothermal...thread. Vivace Energy Technology Harnesses Vortex Hydro-Energy
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HazzeSwede

Location: Hammerdal Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 23, 2009 - 12:26pm |
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Google might save the planet ! is about greenland ice 15 hours ago. "The message on the science is that we know a lot more than we did in 1997 and it's all negative," said Eileen Claussen, president of the Pew Center on Global Climate Change. "Things are much worse than the models predicted."
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HazzeSwede

Location: Hammerdal Gender:  
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Posted:
Nov 23, 2009 - 12:20pm |
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Zep wrote: As I understand this was a new way not done before,been looking for the TV clip found other stuff instead. Greenland ice is going much faster,new reports today,and I can report that the internet is slow right now for us here,found a link to original english site but can't come throu,will try in the morning when you guys are asleep.
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