islander wrote: 



From the rewirings in lathe and plaster I have seen,  channels were cut in the wall surface, as if taking a router to the walls. 

The new wiring run was then laid in the channel and replastered over.

And what cc said.  Sometimes just adding a new circuit will solve you headaches.  And yes the FP boxes. 

 islander wrote:
  Chicken.

 oldslabsides wrote: 
Um, yeah. There are a lot of variables.

If you have old copper wiring, like that cloth-braided stuff, it's really not that bad. Aluminum wiring can be okay too if it's done properly, but mostly it isn't, so it's safer to just rewire.

But the basic idea goes like this:
1) Upgrade the service drop from the pole. Includes new weatherhead (where the main wires come into the house). When I had mine done, I had them move the drop to a different pole: the old wires ran over the driveway, perfect position to catch on a tall vehicle. This absolutely requires a licensed electrician and permits.

2) Upgrade the 'Load Center', aka breaker box. If you have 'Federal Pacific' breakers you should consider this upgrade IMMEDIATELY, even if you don't rewire the whole house. Google FP breakers, and be afraid. This step also requires a licensed electrician.

3) With the new breaker box in place, you can add more circuits (breakers) later, without necessarily having to get an electrician (don't make it too obvious you're DIY'ing your electrical though). Say you want to add outlets in the office. You can run new copper (Romex) from the office back to the breaker box, install the outlets, then add a breaker for the new circuit. There are rules about how many outlets on one circuit, circuits in bathrooms and kitchens, stuff like that. But if you're running basic circuits, the rules are not that bad.

Point is, you may not 'need' to rewire the entire house. The old (copper) wiring is okay, it's just undersized for the amount of juice we use these days. You can add circuits, and move some loads off of the old circuits.

Unless you enjoy crawling around and getting VERY dirty, or you're a cheap-a$$ bastard like me, you probably don't want to do a lot of electrical work. If you went through all the steps I listed, I think it would be between $5-$10K, not more than that. But I'd get a few quotes, and NOT take the cheapest one...

edit: what the Skipper said...

 oldslabsides wrote: 
That sounds like something the the electricians would say. That's probably true if your hiring some one as a contractor to do the work. But if you do the work yourself, as long as you get the permits and have the inspections done, it's legal.  I would also read the city requirements very carefully. Typically, if you are just repairing something and replacing it with a like system (not upgrading or expanding the system), you don't need a permit. 

Electrical will be a little tricky because of requirements like securing the wire within the walls, but code will usually have provisions for using MC cable or something similar to avoid having to demo walls.  Most of the work is really not that hard and safe for the DIY guy as long as you follow some simple procedures. Turn off the circuits you are working on, test wires before cutting.  You can probably abandon in place a lot of the old stuff in the walls and just route new without much damage if you have access to the attic or crawlspace.

Buy this book:

 

and this tool:

 

And spend $30 and two hours on a weekend investigating. You'll be surprised how easy / cheap it is, and you'll know why so many electricians have fishing boats and big trucks.

 

 oldslabsides wrote:
You might verify that. It may have to be inspected by a licensed electrician but most places allow for DIY work.

And that's only if you get a permit for it anyway. Repair (replacing something with an equivalent) didn't require permits in any of the places I've lived. Your local may vary.

 Lazy8 wrote: 
In this town, code requires the work to be done by a licensed electrician.  So, even if I felt confident undertaking such a project myself - which I don't - I couldn't do it.  The house is relatively small, (1,200sqf) and the breaker box and 220 curcuit for the HVAC is all recent and up to code, so that's something. 

 oldslabsides wrote:
Yeah. Did it myself. Took most of a year working nights after work. Cost maybe $500 in supplies 20 years ago, probably double that now, but it was a small house.

I had some of the plaster off the walls to speed some of it up, other places not so much. Without access to the wall interior it slows WAY down, and if you try to minimize damage to the rest of the house that also slows you down.

No idea what pros would have cost. They would have been in a hurry and would have left more damage to clean up after. Electricians don't enjoy remodel work any more than homeowners so expect to have to make a lot of phone calls to get somebody to bid the job.

Has anyone owned an old house that had to be complaetely rewired?  This is something we'll need to do to ours eventually, and I have absolutely no idea what sort of money that takes.  $5k, $10k, what?

 Xeric wrote: 
I have a deal with all creatures, great and small, poisonous and benign.  They stay on their side of the wall and I let them live.  Cross the line and I will (or will make BDH) kill your ugly self.   There is no room for negotiation once they are inside.  Outside?  They don't bother me.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
Huh? The common poisonous spiders in the U.S.—the fiddler spider (a.k.a. brown recluse) and the black widow are both plenty sizable spiders. Some tiny ones may well *bite,* but that doesn't make 'em poisonous.

I rarely kill spiders, never scorpions, and once so far a rattlesnake. They've all got their places in the ecosystem: none of them are the least interested in fucking with you. Let 'em be!

(The above sentiment is null and void if any said creature—well, maybe except spiders—is actually IN your house!)

 Zep wrote: 
Don't know how I missed this the other day.

Yes.  I am an arachnophobe, and we have used flea bomb.  Just follow the flea bomb directions.  We haven't needed to do it in the main house, we've done the garage, mudroom and basement (that's where they come in from) especially before cleaning or moving things around.  We will bomb the mudroom after bringing the wood in, to kill all the spiders living in the wood so they don't end up in the house.

Also, I have had good luck with the barrier stuff that you spray around the foundation.  I haven't done that in a long time, because it seems like just unbearably toxic substance.  I think the drought this year kept all the bug populations down (spiders too) so I didn't have to think about it much. 

 Zep wrote: 

True, and the two prong plugs weren't polarized. Of course, in the breaker (or fuse) box, the neutral wires are bundled on a lug and attached to the ground lug. Some of the old stuff used metal conduit which provided a ground path, and some old stuff didn't have seperate grounding at all. Codes now require an expensive overhaul to correct this when updating wiring. Expensive.

 oldviolin wrote: 
Ok thanks OV.  + and - I get, it's just this ground thing that sometimes has me confuzzled.  First houses I lived in didn't have ground wires or grounding plugs. 
 

 Zep wrote: 

yes, because the chain and fixture are also grounded through the e box. It's overkill (no pun intended) to account for differing wiring situations in new/old construction...

I hung a ceiling fixture today in a location that already had a fixture (a light), so it was just a simple matter of removing the one and connecting the new one. 

But in connecting the new one, I noticed that the manufacturer design the ceiling light so that the ground wire ran exposed, from the lights, up the chain, and out of the top. From there, you simply attach the wire to the grounding screw in the electrical box. 

The instructions specify to thread the power (which was simple 14-gauge stuff) and the ground wire through the links in the chain, and into the post that goes into the electrical box. 

Is it safe to run a ground wire exposed on a chain like that?  I've never seen it done that way. 
 

 Zep wrote: 
You likely saw this article as well.  If not, it lists some recommended products - mostly for exterior applications though.  Maybe that tenant has a phobia or something.

 Proclivities wrote: 

Hi Pro... .Yes I did find the ehow article, and that's when a broom began to seem more appealing — notwithstanding BDB below. I happen to like spiders and I don't think it's too many anyway, but she's the customer.

 DaveInVA wrote: 
What Jrzy said.   We don't target the spiders but they go away with the lack of food and the poison does affect them too.  We don't target anyone.  We are equal opportunity murders.  Eventually, we are going chemical free, but haven't had the time to experiment yet.  We have to many other issues to deal with right now... like the ant farm we call a yard.

On the rare occasion somebody makes it into the house alive (which after the treatments and three cats is nearly impossible) then it becomes personal and they are targeted.  Immediately.

 Zep wrote: 

I have seen some products - mostly for use in crawl spaces and basements.  Some of them you spray on the webs then wait a day or two before clearing the webs away - I don't think that'll be very appealing in an occupied dwelling though.  There is this article with some options and also lists some products. A broom seems like a better idea really. 

 BillnDollarBaby wrote: 
I just leave the spiders be as long as they are not biting me. Usually targeting just the spiders will result in an increase of other bugs as the spiders aren't there to eat them anymore.