Just parking some thoughts from Discogs over here for safe keeping.
I've got a few observations and conclusions made from using all the recently learned information mentioned here regarding hard drives and ripping and what not. In addition I had the opportunity to compare rips of the same album done by me and a pro done in his recording studio using his console. I sold him the album and he was kind enough to rip it for comparisons. He listened to mine in his studio playback and said that given the equipment I have that it was well done and would be hard to improve any further and was worthy of comparison to his rip. His was audibly better but we both agreed not by very much. We both used 24 bit 96 khz wav files for comparison. So that put to rest any doubts about my efforts and quality going forward. He also provided me with a link for reading about pro recording and about how audio needs to be considered for frequencies above 20 khz. That just because you cannot hear something does not mean that you don't notice it as part of the listening experience. Music is both heard and felt by the body. The piece is very lengthy and involved but has a great deal of information that is relevant to this ongoing debate about the mediums we use to listen to music.
Part of my argument has been about listening to files made from ripping either CDs or Lps. Overall I have long concluded that I prefer the mastering done for vinyl as a rule versus CD. And when ripped the source is removed from the process and the files are what you use going forward. I finally learned what the sampling rates really are and what they are about. A 44.1 khz sampling rate cuts frequencies above 20 khz. A 48 khz sampling rate cuts off at 24 khz, a 96 khz sampling rate cuts off at 48 khz, a 192 khz sampling rate cuts off at 96 khz and so on in multiples. I also learned about the dithering process when changing the bit rates of files. That was a big thing to finally understand and put into use when I take my master files down to 16 bits so I can listen to them in my car and other devices.
Vinyl we know has an upper resolution of up to 50 khz because of the frequencies used in Quad recordings and retrievable using a Shibata stylus. For overall audio reproduction of all frequencies, vinyl is superior to CD because of this ability since CDs arbitrarily cut off everything at 20 khz just because of the format. Doesn't matter how good the playback devices are, they will never have anything above 20 khz to offer.
On to files over everything else. The recent release of the 2018 remix of Animals has been my test case. The vinyl is simply awesome, yet it sucks because of the ticks, as usual, sadly. In the past, few if any corners were cut with Floyd vinyl releases making them some of the most reliable pressings out there. This time they did. The defect rate is 40% from what I have heard. Paper sleeves and 60% of the pressings have issues, even though the sound itself is simply amazing. So I finally went and found a source for hi rez files and downloaded the "factory" 24 bit 96 khz wav file for comparison of the overall sound. This was my first experience with these files, ever. Never had a need or desire until now. I was happy with my vinyl rips. But I am getting really tired of repairing audio, taking out the clicks and ticks and other glitches. Thankfully I can, but with new stuff, I shouldn't have to.
So when I compared my vinyl rips of the album done at 24 / 96 to the downloaded files at the same rates, I was happy to discover that the file was very, very nice and enjoyable and that the vinyl was still very good and if I had never heard the factory file I could be satisfied with the vinyl version. Of course there was a difference, but not enough to experience FOMO. That said, I find that I can live with the factory files and when considering a new pressing of an album versus the file, I will now consider getting the file first because of all of the issues with new vinyl. I got files of 5 other albums and overall I am happy with them and will certainly get more. Also because I have divorced myself of the need or interest of having any physical media once I have ripped it, it is even easier to accept. I want the music more than the artwork and all the other stuff. The music itself is what matters most to me. I can get all the info about the music that I don't know or forgot, here.
That's my story (for now) and I'm sticking with it :)
The article cited above is very lengthy and involved but anyone who is really interested in audio recording and reproduction principles will find it very informative. Parts 1 and 2 are background pieces and the technical stuff comes in the last 3 parts. It took me a couple of weeks to make it through, but it was well worth it. I ended up bookmarking the page to make it easier to find when I could spend some more time reading it. I am going to go through one more time just to make sure it gels and sticks. Rupert Neve made recording consoles that worked at up to 200 khz. George Martin's legendary Montserrat recording studio AIR Montserrathad one of Neve's custom built consoles that allowed for some of the finest recorded music ever. It was the heart of the studio.
I've also found some of these hi rez files to have glitches and clicks still in the masters that need to be addressed. Fortunately from my experience with vinyl, I can repair most of these as well. Most notable so far of a master with issues has been BOC's Agents of Fortune. Clapton's 461 Ocean Blvd has issues as well. I still have plenty of vinyl to go through and clean up and will continue to do so, but finally finding a US source for hi rez wav files that will sell to US customers has been a game changer.
Yep. 80's metal is really, really hot now and just about anything pressed in the 90's at the tail end of the original vinyl run is through the roof. There is also this genre of which I know very little about called Northern Soul. The stories that come with it are really amazing, too. Stories of thefts of collections and the chases afterwards could be soap operas. There are several well known characters that have their pictures on the walls of many shops world wide, that handle this kind of music.
The first guy who inquired was good enough to inform me about the 80s metal and made me a "fair" offer. Still intrigued by the metal value, as some of the stuff wasn't particularly rare, being still mostly pre mass produced cd.
Last fall as I got ready to move/downsize, I sold about 500 lps, mostly classic rock/pop. Could barely give away most of the regular stuff (I did take a few good ones, like a coveted Zep II album, and sticky fingers)...but boy was there great demand for 80s metal! I wasn't ready for that, and probably undersold, but still made some decent $ on a few dozen of those albums.
Yep. 80's metal is really, really hot now and just about anything pressed in the 90's at the tail end of the original vinyl run is through the roof. There is also this genre of which I know very little about called Northern Soul. The stories that come with it are really amazing, too. Stories of thefts of collections and the chases afterwards could be soap operas. There are several well known characters that have their pictures on the walls of many shops world wide, that handle this kind of music.
Last fall as I got ready to move/downsize, I sold about 500 lps, mostly classic rock/pop. Could barely give away most of the regular stuff (I did take a few good ones, like a coveted Zep II album, and sticky fingers)...but boy was there great demand for 80s metal! I wasn't ready for that, and probably undersold, but still made some decent $ on a few dozen of those albums.
Amazing stuff. Almost 20 years ago, a great uncle of mine passed away in Philadelphia. An IRS agent. A quiet and gentle man. Never married, my suspicions are that he was a homosexual in an Italian family that likely would have frowned upon it...so he kept to himself. The uncle who was selling his home invited me over to see his "collections", of which there were 3: trains, VHS tapes, and vinyl. The vinyl was everywhere. He built shelves in entire rooms that included the closets. They were in the halls. They were in multiple bedrooms. There were thousands and thousands of them. The floors and ceilings below bowed from the weight. It was honestly a bit scary. My uncle said to me...take what you want, the Princeton Record Exchange is coming tomorrow to get them and giving me 10 cents each. My wife and I filled a station wagon with unopened, shrink-wrapped LP's. The car bottomed out a few times. I sold most of them on ebay, and in the span of a few months made $7k-$8k. I shipped them everywhere. There was a guy in Hong Kong who sent me thousands of dollars. I sold mostly Opera and classical. Many for around/over $100. No rock that I saw....plenty of Jazz. I still have some of his albums...unopened...with Korvettes and Sam Goody price tags on the shrink-wrap. I just turned around and pulled one from the rack behind me.... 1961 - still wrapped - a "special" sticker on it for 97¢, and a price tag from SKlein? I had to look them up...they closed in 1978 (regional Philly department store). Some day, I'll open them and listen....but Spotify makes that sorta unnecessary (this album isn't listed, but all of the songs are). I hope he didn't have a rock section that I missed.
Nice story. Definitely remember EJ Korvette. There was one on Roosevelt Blvd in North Philly I used to go to. Which was nearby to the Whitman Chocolate company and also the Philly office of the IRS.
.
Eight Jewish Korean War Veterans
A popular, and false, story behind the name's origin – that E.J. Korvette stands for “Eight Jewish Korean War Veterans.” In reality, according to Ferkauf, the “E.J.” stands for Eugene and his friend Joe who started with the company from its inception. The Korvette was named after the Canadian WWII Warship a Corvette.
You probably hit prime time for classical vinyl back then as it has really fallen off, but the Jazz, that is a much different story, especially if you have anything original Blue Note or Verve. Those can be worth $$$'s in only good condition. I wouldn't open them either, given what it is and how accessible it is. But you can make some people really happy popping the cherry on one of those.
What I'm doing now is trying to prevent the scenario of your great uncle and leave a nightmare behind and potentially end up in "the rubbish bin" as it is referred to so often over at discogs. I was finally selling more than I was buying for awhile. Now it is about even. The sales do pay for the new for the most part though ...
It's hard work, especially if it's used vinyl and you are also your playing the vinyl and in my case recording it. It can get really tedious and boring. The rewards are still worth it though. I get the sound and someone gets the vinyl to actually play and enjoy and keep it safe for the future as I like to think.
I haven't plugged myself in years but FWIW here's my store. Same link as in my profile here. Those would not be the $ I would charge RPeeps. I'll also toss in the cleaned up rips and in some cases the remasters of these rips. If it has been opened, it's been ripped. You can hear it wart's and all and decide what noise if any, is tolerable this being vinyl. I'll also donate as least a dollar per to RP.
Anyone interested, pm me. Look at my collection, too. I can look to see if I still have stuff in there.
Almost 20 years ago, a great uncle of mine passed away in Philadelphia. An IRS agent. A quiet and gentle man. Never married, my suspicions are that he was a homosexual in an Italian family that likely would have frowned upon it...so he kept to himself.
The uncle who was selling his home invited me over to see his "collections", of which there were 3: trains, VHS tapes, and vinyl. The vinyl was everywhere. He built shelves in entire rooms that included the closets. They were in the halls. They were in multiple bedrooms. There were thousands and thousands of them. The floors and ceilings below bowed from the weight. It was honestly a bit scary.
My uncle said to me...take what you want, the Princeton Record Exchange is coming tomorrow to get them and giving me 10 cents each.
My wife and I filled a station wagon with unopened, shrink-wrapped LP's. The car bottomed out a few times. I sold most of them on ebay, and in the span of a few months made $7k-$8k. I shipped them everywhere. There was a guy in Hong Kong who sent me thousands of dollars. I sold mostly Opera and classical. Many for around/over $100. No rock that I saw....plenty of Jazz. I still have some of his albums...unopened...with Korvettes and Sam Goody price tags on the shrink-wrap.
I just turned around and pulled one from the rack behind me....
1961 - still wrapped - a "special" sticker on it for 97¢, and a price tag from SKlein? I had to look them up...they closed in 1978 (regional Philly department store).
Some day, I'll open them and listen....but Spotify makes that sorta unnecessary (this album isn't listed, but all of the songs are). I hope he didn't have a rock section that I missed.
Yeah. It certainly did for me, too. Takes me to the same places now that it did then.
Perhaps the biggest reminder through all of this is exactly what parts of The Beatles were George and even more so how much Billy Preston became a really big part of The Beatles when he showed up and brought his keyboards into the soul of their music after Sgt Pepper to the end and beyond with this album to be sure.
Catching up on things now that I have finished the initial part of what has been a grueling three weeks on this project. The audio program I use for remastering becomes unstable after being open for a couple of weeks and can crash requiring a restart with some settings lost. So in order to have all 36 tracks of both mixes sound the same when finished they had to be done all at once. That was done from the wee hours of last Sunday through to the wee hours of this Thursday. And then 3 days of retail hell. I'm whupped. Listening to the 2017 mix on the headphones now. Already listened to the 2021 mix on the cans. Truthfully surprised how good it came out. And while they are really very different, they both sound very nice actually. If I was to sit down and listen to the whole album in one sitting, either one will do. But if I were to want to listen to individual tracks here and there, probably the 2021 mixes.
Nice. Apply some of the same principals to ripping. Shortest possible cable runs with as few steps as possible in the data chain to the actual file. Turntable is powered by separate 120 volt to 100 volt converter plugged into a line conditioner that keeps things very quiet and off to one side from all the computers. Turntable is plugged into a DC powered combination phono preamp / ADC with USB out straight into the computer with special cable at 1.5 meter in length to keep extraneous noises to a minimum. Conversion to digital is done at the earliest possible stage to keep the sound as close to the original signal as possible. Theoretically since my phono carts are designed to work on quad vinyl these wav files played through a quad decoder should have all the information needed to properly process the signal and playback in quad as intended.
The one thing that I have long ago concluded and was recently reinforced after going through both mixes of ATMP is that when it comes to perfect reproduction of recorded sound, it can only really matter with live totally acoustic music as with an orchestra or small ensemble of any kind. And there are two schools of thought for recording this sound. Binaural and conventional multiple microphone placements through the entire room. Binaural being a pair of microphones placed on elevated head shaped holder with the microphones placed on the head in the same positioning of the ears. This captures the overall sound as it would be naturally heard by a single listener in that point of space. Otherwise when instruments are electronic or amplified through electronic means, that no longer really applies. This kind of music is subject to the interpretations of producers and engineers after the musicians have done their part. There are many different ways to mix and otherwise change and affect the music towards an intended end that may not sound the same way (and rarely does) the individual instruments sounded when played. It then becomes subjective trying to make it sound a certain way for commercial playback purposes. And it goes downhill from this point onward.
I think of it this way. The musicians are the framers / rough carpenters, the engineers are the finishing carpenters and those who master the final mix are the painters who come in and fix or cover up all the flaws under the paint facade and make them go away with a pleasing final appearance or sound. The final mastering can just as easily make or break the recording. And why there are so many remastering efforts we are being bombarded with to make up for all of the crappy CD releases that came out. And then sadly, the primary purpose is to extract another buck from the listener rather than really put forth a final masterpiece.
Yer welcome ! Still slogging away. Just finished the full run through. Total of 22 sides played times 3 times each. Sides 1 & 2 were bad on both sets, so I bought one more, but the 5 Lp set (from another vendor) instead of the 7 hoping to get a different part of the run. Nope, all three although the one from the 5 piece set is the most tolerable. All three Side 1's have the same stamper but Side 2 has two different ones. I have to return one 7 and the 5 now. Sigh. Now I have to redo the 2017 set, with this new cart. I'll have a pretty good idea of the differences after all this. What is really nice is that the outtakes and demos are the really, really good stuff. I like many of them better than the finals. More thoughts to come on this album. I also put in an order for the über set, but I'm still thinking about not getting it with these defects. Lot's of emailing in my immediate future. Sigh, again ... and almost a full quart of various cleaning solutions.
Dude! My drug (music) problem is almost as bad as yours.
Wow, that's pretty bad. It does channel my inner OCD and keeps the perfectionist in me frustrated. I'm still slogging away with this set. Had to try 4 more sides and found a previously unknown fourth different stamper in the process for one of them. I ran into someone else at discogs who has also tried 3 different copies and couldn't make one good one out of those three either. It looks like two go back for sure and maybe all three. This may turn out to be a major train wreck of not only an iconic album but also of an expensive set that contains so many separate discs. People are pissed and the returns are going to be monumental. Universal Music Group which controls nearly all the physical rights to any material of worth decides who is going to do the work and how many corners (quality control) they can cut, cheap out on and get away with.
So the month of August is going to be all about this album. Already broke up the 2017 and now I'm halfway through the 2021 main album. The Über Deluxe set arrives Tuesday. Weighs in at 48 lbs according to UPS. There is a great unboxing vid which I'll put up when I have some extra time. So between now and Tuesday I've got much to do. It's a good thing that this is a desert island album and I can hear it over and over again and not get too tired (yet) of hearing it. It'll be interesting to find out how often I will listen to it down the road after beating my brains out with it now.
I am beginning to like the new mix though now that I am pretty familiar with it.
Location: Really deep in the heart of South California Gender:
Posted:
Aug 20, 2021 - 4:46pm
kurtster wrote:
Yer welcome ! Still slogging away. Just finished the full run through. Total of 22 sides played times 3 times each. Sides 1 & 2 were bad on both sets, so I bought one more, but the 5 Lp set (from another vendor) instead of the 7 hoping to get a different part of the run. Nope, all three although the one from the 5 piece set is the most tolerable. All three Side 1's have the same stamper but Side 2 has two different ones. I have to return one 7 and the 5 now. Sigh. Now I have to redo the 2017 set, with this new cart. I'll have a pretty good idea of the differences after all this. What is really nice is that the outtakes and demos are the really, really good stuff. I like many of them better than the finals. More thoughts to come on this album. I also put in an order for the über set, but I'm still thinking about not getting it with these defects. Lot's of emailing in my immediate future. Sigh, again ...
and almost a full quart of various cleaning solutions.
Dude!
My drug (music) problem is almost as bad as yours.
8 Aug 2021 Been awhile. Comments, if any are welcome. Y'all CLICKY
Thank for that Kurt! Sounds real nice and clear!
Yer welcome ! Still slogging away. Just finished the full run through. Total of 22 sides played times 3 times each. Sides 1 & 2 were bad on both sets, so I bought one more, but the 5 Lp set (from another vendor) instead of the 7 hoping to get a different part of the run. Nope, all three although the one from the 5 piece set is the most tolerable. All three Side 1's have the same stamper but Side 2 has two different ones. I have to return one 7 and the 5 now. Sigh. Now I have to redo the 2017 set, with this new cart. I'll have a pretty good idea of the differences after all this. What is really nice is that the outtakes and demos are the really, really good stuff. I like many of them better than the finals. More thoughts to come on this album. I also put in an order for the über set, but I'm still thinking about not getting it with these defects. Lot's of emailing in my immediate future. Sigh, again ...
and almost a full quart of various cleaning solutions.
Last fall as I got ready to move/downsize, I sold about 500 lps, mostly classic rock/pop. Could barely give away most of the regular stuff (I did take a few good ones, like a coveted Zep II album, and sticky fingers)...but boy was there great demand for 80s metal! I wasn't ready for that, and probably undersold, but still made some decent $ on a few dozen of those albums. 
1961 - still wrapped - a "special" sticker on it for 97¢, and a price tag from
Y'all