..... So, why didn't it work? Russia was creaming it and had half of Europe dependent on its oil and gas supplies. Economy was rock solid, trade balance likewise.. so why throw it all away? Or at least risk destroying such a cozy arrangement?
What do you mean by "creaming it"? Yes, amassing troops on the border and invading Ukraine has come at a huge cost to Russia. Then Germany and many other European countries are paying a significant economic cost too. Norway is benefiting along with other net exporters of oil and natural gas. Some in the USA made out like bandits on US LNG exports to Europe although overall the cost-benefit equation for the entire US economy looks negative.
You seem to be dodging the question. Russia's trade balance 1990 to 2020 though I am sure you are already aware of this.
Russia, like Australia, has had a very cozy time of it, selling off its natural resources. That is what I mean by creaming it. But that is not the point I was making. The point is, Russia has totally infiltrated the highest levels of the German government. Maybe the German's were thinking that was the best way to contain Russia. Whatever it was, the upper echelons of government on both sides were totally in cahoots with each other. The very strategy you claim to have been the better course rather than this alleged aggressive NATO expansion is what the actual strategy was.. lived and breathed.. by most of the European Union and most of all by Germany.
So if this strategy of yours was so damn clever, why didn't this keep the peace?
So, why didn't it work? Russia was creaming it and had half of Europe dependent on its oil and gas supplies. Economy was rock solid, trade balance likewise.. so why throw it all away? Or at least risk destroying such a cozy arrangement?
What do you mean by "creaming it"?
Yes, amassing troops on the border and invading Ukraine has come at a huge cost to Russia. Then Germany and many other European countries are paying a significant economic cost too.
Norway is benefiting along with other net exporters of oil and natural gas. Some in the USA made out like bandits on US LNG exports to Europe although overall the cost-benefit equation for the entire US economy looks negative.
First, Happy Monroe Doctrine, NoEnzo. Which is a fancy of saying, Happy Hypocritical Killing of Innocents!
Let's roll the clock back to WW II. Recall that many regard WW II to be a direct result of the harsh punishing conditions of the Treaty of Versailles.
Yeah, let's. I forgot to wish you a happy anniversary of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
Yes, there are people who blame WW2 entirely on the Treaty of Versailles. They're wrong. They miss (or excuse) the seething nationalism and racism of the National Socialist movement, and the widespread cultural and political divisions—brutally suppressed, even before Hitler rose to power—in Germany after WW1. I don't have time this morning to sort that out for you, but there is ample historical material out there if you want to spend the time reading it.
3 1/2 million Germanic and Slavic peoples of Jewish descent died in horrific conditions. Would you have preferred to see more die?
18 million or more Russians died. Not enough for you? Many credit Russian resistance and sacrifices as the key element in the bid to crush the Nazi existential threat.
This is so far out of left field it's difficult to even call it a non-sequitur. More of a deranged poo-fling.
Yes, Russian losses in WW2 were horrific, and the main counter to the German military was the Russian front. Those horrific losses were in large part due to Stalin's ham-fisted, brutal, and cruel military leadership. He drove the Red Army much like the Russian Army is fighting in eastern Ukraine—grinding frontal assaults, sacrificing large numbers of troops in brute-force attacks and hold-to-the-last-man defenses.
Recall that the USA sealed victory against the Nazis by directly targeting innocent civilians in German industrial towns. Not with percussion bombs but with fire bombs. Lovely, eh?
Pretty much every historian agrees with the military assessments at the time: that the civilian bombings had little effect on the German war effort. And the worst indiscriminate targeting of civilians was done by the British, mostly as a vindictive response to the German air raids early in the war.
The USA and fellow travelling companions were warned not to push NATO into former Warsaw Pact countries. Did it anyways. For what? The promise of greater US agricultural and weapon system exports? The USA initially promised not to do that but as is so often the case broke its word. Forked tongue all over again.
Gosh, sorry Vladimir. You were totally provoked by allowing your former vassal states to join an alliance to protect themselves from your imperial aims.
Go ahead and carve up a neighboring country so you can make things right. Kill whoever you need to. Our bad.
The alternative would have been to slowly, patiently co-opt Russia into the western family. That would have been great for US economic outcomes given the resource richness of Russia and great for US security interests given Russia's international relations and peculiar talents in the realm of security. That would have secured eastern European security in a cost-effective, sustainable manner.
You seem to have missed the early part of the 21st century—the trade deals, the economic bailouts, the blind eye turned toward Russian aggression against its neighbors—Georgia, eastern Ukraine, the brutal handling of dissent in places like Chechnya. When you catch up on WW2 maybe you could brush up on more recent history.
Yet you support the invasion of the Holy Lands by Germanic and Slavic peoples calling themselves Jewish, the ethnic cleansing origins of the Jewish-only Israeli state and now the settlement of the West Bank by Jewish-only settlers, militarily occupied since 1967. It is interesting when the Israeli state deploys tactics widely used by those fighting Nazism to demonize Nazis, you and others say nothing.
Admit it, you are a fan of the Hill Top Youths (brown shirts?) and the Outposts, are you not? You approved of the Gestapo-like sweep of the West Bank conducted by the IOF in 2016 against Hamas at the very moment that Hamas appeared ready to sign on to the accords between the PA and Israel. You have no issue with Israeli kill ratios do you? Does 1:5 meet your approval?
I'd ask where on earth this came from, but it's getting hard to care. Hope it hurt when you pulled it out.
Here we are. How many hundred of thousands of more Ukrainian lives are you willing to sacrifice in order to attain glorious victory in Ukraine? How far are you willing to punish European economies or drive the US debt higher? How much are you willing to weaken and erode US hegemony in order to accomplish this goal?
Because this is all about Amerikkka, and Europe (and especially Ukraine) have nothing to say about it. They just do what they Yanks tell them to.
Europe should have been able to head this war off and (failing that) deal with the Russian threat without the US' help. It didn't and it couldn't because Europe has relied on US military muscle for far too long. This invasion and annexation were stark wake-up calls. The electorates in Europe are realizing that they need their own military counter to that threat.
Or put differently, explain to us how this bloody proxy war fueled by NATO weapons will ultimately make the USA stronger.
You do understand the NoEnz isn't an American, right? Of course you do.
None of this helps the US. It's a complete waste of lives and resources. When the war concludes the world will be the poorer for it. It's odd that you blame those who resist but not those who started it.
First, Happy Monroe Doctrine, NoEnzo. Which is a fancy of saying, Happy Hypocritical Killing of Innocents!
Let's roll the clock back to WW II. Recall that many regard WW II to be a direct result of the harsh punishing conditions of the Treaty of Versailles.
3 1/2 million Germanic and Slavic peoples of Jewish descent died in horrific conditions. Would you have preferred to see more die?
18 million or more Russians died. Not enough for you? Many credit Russian resistance and sacrifices as the key element in the bid to crush the Nazi existential threat.
Recall that the USA sealed victory against the Nazis by directly targeting innocent civilians in German industrial towns. Not with percussion bombs but with fire bombs. Lovely, eh?
The USA and fellow travelling companions were warned not to push NATO into former Warsaw Pact countries. Did it anyways. For what? The promise of greater US agricultural and weapon system exports? The USA initially promised not to do that but as is so often the case broke its word. Forked tongue all over again.
The alternative would have been to slowly, patiently co-opt Russia into the western family. That would have been great for US economic outcomes given the resource richness of Russia and great for US security interests given Russia's international relations and peculiar talents in the realm of security. That would have secured eastern European security in a cost-effective, sustainable manner.
Yet you support the invasion of the Holy Lands by Germanic and Slavic peoples calling themselves Jewish, the ethnic cleansing origins of the Jewish-only Israeli state and now the settlement of the West Bank by Jewish-only settlers, militarily occupied since 1967. It is interesting when the Israeli state deploys tactics widely used by those fighting Nazism to demonize Nazis, you and others say nothing.
Admit it, you are a fan of the Hill Top Youths (brown shirts?) and the Outposts, are you not? You approved of the Gestapo-like sweep of the West Bank conducted by the IOF in 2016 against Hamas at the very moment that Hamas appeared ready to sign on to the accords between the PA and Israel. You have no issue with Israeli kill ratios do you? Does 1:5 meet your approval?
Here we are. How many hundred of thousands of more Ukrainian lives are you willing to sacrifice in order to attain glorious victory in Ukraine? How far are you willing to punish European economies or drive the US debt higher? How much are you willing to weaken and erode US hegemony in order to accomplish this goal?
Or put differently, explain to us how this bloody proxy war fueled by NATO weapons will ultimately make the USA stronger.
This is such a dog's breakfast of offensive attacks against NoEnzLeftToSplit that I'm pretty aghast. Nevermind the twisted mind that somehow equates the occupation and partition of Europe by the Soviets with peace. And don't get me started on your using every topic to stamp your feet about Israel to deflect from what is actually being discussed. But this time you are effectively accusing him of being a Nazi.
Since this is the Canada topic, I'm not going to take it further than saying you are way off base with your attacks on his integrity.
The alternative would have been to slowly, patiently co-opt Russia into the western family. That would have been great for US economic outcomes given the resource richness of Russia and great for US security interests given Russia's international relations and peculiar talents in the realm of security. That would have secured eastern European security in a cost-effective, sustainable manner.
Far out, you project a lot. It's almost like you are.. um... nah, whatever.
Let's take the one point where we could perhaps find some agreement, namely in the above paragraph.
Given that this appears to be your preferred option post 1989, perhaps you could please enlighten me as to why things took the course they did, because this "patiently co-opting" Russia into the western family sums up German policy in a nutshell.
So, why didn't it work? Russia was creaming it and had half of Europe dependent on its oil and gas supplies. Economy was rock solid, trade balance likewise.. so why throw it all away? Or at least risk destroying such a cozy arrangement?
First, Happy Monroe Doctrine, NoEnzo. Which is a fancy of saying, Happy Hypocritical Killing of Innocents!
Let's roll the clock back to WW II. Recall that many regard WW II to be a direct result of the harsh punishing conditions of the Treaty of Versailles.
3 1/2 million Germanic and Slavic peoples of Jewish descent died in horrific conditions. Would you have preferred to see more die?
18 million or more Russians died. Not enough for you? Many credit Russian resistance and sacrifices as the key element in the bid to crush the Nazi existential threat.
Recall that the USA sealed victory against the Nazis by directly targeting innocent civilians in German industrial towns. Not with percussion bombs but with fire bombs. Lovely, eh?
The USA and fellow travelling companions were warned not to push NATO into former Warsaw Pact countries. Did it anyways. For what? The promise of greater US agricultural and weapon system exports? The USA initially promised not to do that but as is so often the case broke its word. Forked tongue all over again.
The alternative would have been to slowly, patiently co-opt Russia into the western family. That would have been great for US economic outcomes given the resource richness of Russia and great for US security interests given Russia's international relations and peculiar talents in the realm of security. That would have secured eastern European security in a cost-effective, sustainable manner.
Yet you support the invasion of the Holy Lands by Germanic and Slavic peoples calling themselves Jewish, the ethnic cleansing origins of the Jewish-only Israeli state and now the settlement of the West Bank by Jewish-only settlers, militarily occupied since 1967. It is interesting when the Israeli state deploys tactics widely used by those fighting Nazism to demonize Nazis, you and others say nothing.
Admit it, you are a fan of the Hill Top Youths (brown shirts?) and the Outposts, are you not? You approved of the Gestapo-like sweep of the West Bank conducted by the IOF in 2016 against Hamas at the very moment that Hamas appeared ready to sign on to the accords between the PA and Israel. You have no issue with Israeli kill ratios do you? Does 1:5 meet your approval?
Here we are. How many hundred of thousands of more Ukrainian lives are you willing to sacrifice in order to attain glorious victory in Ukraine? How far are you willing to punish European economies or drive the US debt higher? How much are you willing to weaken and erode US hegemony in order to accomplish this goal?
Or put differently, explain to us how this bloody proxy war fueled by NATO weapons will ultimately make the USA stronger.
Nine-in-ten in Canada (89%) say their country is a safe place to live; half as many say this in U.S. (43%)
Wow, Just wow. Did not see that one coming. 83% of quebecois see Canada as a country they are proud to live in.
If at all accurate, this is proof of the success of the efforts of the Canadian state and civil society to slowly, patiently co-opt quebecois nationalism over the decades.
Welp. I have long said that US politics are far more interesting than the milquetoast we see in Canada.
No longer.
We've now got our intelligence community whistleblowing on corrupt politicians at all levels of government. Up to 12 politicians or candidates are affected, from multiple parties. Our PM makes excuses one day and calls those accusing a politician racist. The very next day, more damaging information is leaked and the CCP compromised MP resigns from the governing Lib party.
There will be lots more to come. 2 down, more to come.
This government needs to fall, and right now.
This really sad. It is now official. Canadians are just as easy to mislead and manipulate as Americans.
Yes, this government should fall but who will replace it? Pierre Pollievre's Conservative Party that promotes monetary policy that will have Canadians wearing grass skirts and living in thatched roof huts?
Welp. I have long said that US politics are far more interesting than the milquetoast we see in Canada.
No longer.
We've now got our intelligence community whistleblowing on corrupt politicians at all levels of government. Up to 12 politicians or candidates are affected, from multiple parties. Our PM makes excuses one day and calls those accusing a politician racist. The very next day, more damaging information is leaked and the CCP compromised MP resigns from the governing Lib party.
There will be lots more to come. 2 down, more to come.
