kurtster wrote: 
A) We don't have any neutron bombs. Several nations can make them, but none are presently known to deploy any.

B) Odds are the leadership of North Korea have their own bunkers to hide in. Odds are the people of North Korea - already starving and suffering - don't. I don't know about you, but I don't consider "well, you should've picked a better country to be born in" much of a guilt assessment.

C) Seriously? You're okay with adopting the same rationale as al Qaeda? "It is unfortunate that the citizens of a nation should suffer as a direct result of its leadership. But we have as a nation and have been attacked for that reason only." So if it's only "unfortunate" that the innoncent should suffer for the wicked, where do we get off being outraged at a few thousand "unfortunate losses" on 9/11? Isn't that just the cost of doing business on the international scale? Would you perhaps like to explain to the parents of the kids who died in the Oklahoma City bombing that their chidlren's deaths were "unfortunate", but McVeigh needed to make a point about our increasingly tyrannical government and the poor little buggers just happened to be between the bomb and the Feds? It's immoral to kill innocent US citizens because their leadership is doing stuff you disagree with, but it's fine to inflcit far heavier casualties elsewhere for the same reason? I guess the Athenians were right: "the strong do as they will, the weak suffer as they must".

If negotiation and diplomacy fail - a distinct possibility here - we have all kinds of trained commandos and precision-guided weapons. Maybe it's very difficult to find exactly the right snake's head to hack, but that doesn't mean we should set fire to the forest and hope for the best. 

 jadewahoo wrote: 
right jadewahoo, this is precisely what i mean bad vibes ars good for nothing just bing them real gifts as every day the whole day is much more fun let eg. your president say something like this instead, nono lets put N korea on the spot off bad boy ,anyway;

PEACESUCKERS(mr.T)

 kurtster wrote: 
Neutron bombs? Neutron bombs? Do you have any fucking idea of the cancer rate induced by a neutron bomb? Do you have any idea of the toll of human suffering caused by cancer? Uh-huh. And still you are suggesting that we, as a nation, subject the innocent peoples of Korea, who are struggling merely to survive beneath the weight of a despotic dictatorship, to cancer of horrific proportions? Kurt, shame on you.

 sirdroseph wrote: 

Let Japan go Nuclear, China will more than likely shut lil Kim down, one way or the other. The last thing China wants to see is a Japan with Nukes.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
Neutron bombs.  They were designed for just these kinds of occasions.  Its is unfortunate that the citizens of a nation should suffer as a direct result of its leadership.  But we have as a nation and have been attacked for that reason only.  So what makes NK different from us in that regard ?  The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, even if the few measures in the millions, versus the many which measures in the billions.  The time has come to shit or get off the pot.  Are we gonna call the shots or merely react to the actions of a crazy madman ?  Remember, when dealing with crazy, THERE ARE NO RULES !

Or we withdraw from the world stage, bring all our troops home, isolate ourselves and lock down our borders (like that's gonna happen).  And wait for the shit to come to us while the rest of the world goes crazy.  Fallout from an overseas nuclear war will kill us in the end regardless.  Waltzing Matilda, anyone ?

 kurtster wrote: 
And the alternative is.........?

 katzendogs wrote: 
Yup.  Another test for our new prez, just as Biden had predicted.  Iran is providing assistance with missile technology and hanging around there in NK watching the tests and looking to buy warheads.  No big deal, business as usual.  China can deal with NK and Israel can deal with Iran.  We sure as hell are unable and unwilling.  We should take the European approach and just appease everyone.  Appeasement has a long record of success. 

From what I recall from last summer's winning election campaign, talking is the answer for everything.  Besides, what I've heard all my life is that "talk is cheap" and we are broke.  So be it.

 JustineFromWyoming wrote: 
Mmm, brings us back to the turnips and radishes we were speaking of earlier.  Ya sure you couldn't get some kimchi going by the time we get back there in a month or so? Kimchi makes even Budweiser taste good.

(But you sure don't look Korean)

 katzendogs wrote: 
It was on my mind this morning. I had 4 sessions of classes with teachers from Incheon scheduled today beginning at 6 am, teaching English. Two simply didn't attend. The third's session was all about today's funeral of former President Roh. It was estimated that over 500,000 attended the service. I watched a unedited clip from the LA Times site and saw many physical confrontations during the proceedings. Many are just devastated by this and it's not helped that the current S. Korean president is far more conservative and downright aggressive than President Roh was during his administration. My last session this morning was less than 5 minutes. My student was visibly upset and asked if we could talk another time. Of course I gave her my condolences and best wishes during this difficult time in her country.

Another of my students is secret service detail for the Blue House (S. Korea's home of their president). We talked 3 weeks ago and he mentioned at that time that he was upset that there was a scandal surfacing involving his former boss. I sure hope he schedules another session with me soon because I'm anxious to talk with him about the situation. 

Finally, one of my students, who has Kim Jung as part of his name, is a ringer for the whacko that's in Pyongyang. I think Kim Jong-il had a girlfriend in Incheon about 18 years ago... 

Holy crap! I just looked at the Wikipedia page and Kim Jong-il and I have the same birthday.  Gruesome family history.  Ewwwww... 

 katzendogs wrote: 
Call Chuck Norris.

 Monkeysdad wrote: 
Sounds like a fun place to visit!

 katzendogs wrote: 

They're already a hungry nation in more than just food, they'd be hamstrung if China denied them all but the staples.


exo's salivating, I'm sure.

 Monkeysdad wrote: 
Yeah. But lil Kim's focus is on S.Korea and the US.
wonders if exo's reelin'

 katzendogs wrote: 

From what I can tell China supplies them 70-80% of everything, shut down all but the foodstuffs and their attention will be 'gotten'.

 Monkeysdad wrote: 
thars a key phrase.

 katzendogs wrote: 

eyup!
It's going to be interesting to see what transpires. It should be fairly easy to shut KJI down but...who's gonna do it?

katzendogs wrote:
trying NOT to think about it...

 katzendogs wrote: 
Yup, but filed under "Hello Mr Barack! Yoo-hoo! Here we are, over here!!"
 
See also: Iran, Israel and Pakistan &tc.

So. Is this on anyone's mind?

 Xeric wrote: 
Yeah...well...that's pretty much my point.

If Kim is so obviously not capable of rational thought, then it's completely and totally up to us to be the voice of reason.

Given Kim's past shenanigans, it is just not reasonable or rational to say "OK, Kim has come to his senses, let's drop our guard right away" every time that Kim makes a promise.  This holds especially true after Kim has fooled us once already.

IMHO the reasonable thing to do is to take a "wait and see" attitude, and see if Kim can "stay on his meds" for more than a couple of weeks at a time, BEFORE giving N. Korea the Big Reward.