Every POTUS can already close the border with the stroke of a pen. This is just an excuse to hide behind. Do you really want to create a law that allows 1.8 million illegal unrestricted, unvetted entries per year ? We just added another 10 million and counting illegals during the Biden admin. We just found out that Biden has flown in 530,000 illegals on direct flights from their countries this year alone. How much is too much for you ?
Link please?
Its old but the number already admitted is 320,000 as of March. I just heard the 530,000 number on the tube moments ago.
A Freedom Of Information Act request uncovered that the Biden administration has flown at least 320,000 undocumented immigrants into the United States over the past 12 months. The administration however has refused to disclose the origin of these flights or say where the undocumented immigrants were flown to in the United States.
Every POTUS can already close the border with the stroke of a pen. This is just an excuse to hide behind.
Do you really want to create a law that allows 1.8 million illegal unrestricted, unvetted entries per year ?
We just added another 10 million and counting illegals during the Biden admin. We just found out that Biden has flown in 530,000 illegals on direct flights from their countries this year alone. How much is too much for you ?
How can you put into law that you allow up to 5,000 per day to enter illegally ? That would be the law of the land, that we allow 5,000ILLEGAL ENTRIES per day and that would become part of the law going forward indefinitely ?
The number should be zero as far as making any laws. Illegal is illegal.
Bad law is bad law and in this case nothing is better than something that allows an illegal activity.
Again, SOMETHING is better than NOTHING. Right now, there is NOTHING because Trump wanted it. And its not ALLOWING... its APPREHENSION. Do you know Kurt, how many illegal immigrants are held and deported back because they don't qualify for Asylum? Or that having more BORDER PATROL AGENTS can also apprehend more illegal crossers. So bad laws mean don't bother hiring more cops? No Speed Limits either because they aren't perfect in stopping speeding completely? That's your logic.
Every POTUS can already close the border with the stroke of a pen. This is just an excuse to hide behind. Do you really want to create a law that allows 1.8 million illegal unrestricted, unvetted entries per year ?
We just added another 10 million and counting illegals during the Biden admin. We just found out that Biden has flown in 530,000 illegals on direct flights from their countries this year alone. How much is too much for you ?
It is number 5 that is the deal breaker. How can you put into law that you allow up to 5,000 per day to enter illegally ?
That would be the law of the land, that we allow 5,000ILLEGAL ENTRIES per day and that would become part of the law going forward indefinitely ?
The number should be zero as far as making any laws. Illegal is illegal.
Bad law is bad law and in this case nothing is better than something that allows an illegal activity.
Again, SOMETHING is better than NOTHING. Right now, there is Nothing because Trump wanted it.
And its not 'allowing' ... its numbers of apprehension. You think everyone that crosses and is counted gets to stay? Do you know Kurt, how many illegal immigrants are held and deported back because they don't currently qualify for Asylum?
Or that having more BORDER PATROL AGENTS can also apprehend more illegal crossers?
So bad laws mean don't bother hiring more cops? No Speed Limits either because they aren't perfect in stopping speeding completely? That seems your logic here.
Nothing. But that Bi-partisan Bill in February would have 1. Add more border patrol agents. 2. More funding for agents, processing centers and administration. 3. Immediate deportation if crossed illegally without applying for asylum in a previous country. 4. Much harder qualifications for asylum.
. 5. And if crossings go over a certain number, the border is closed.
SOMETHING is always better than Nothing when it comes to law enforcement.
It is number 5 that is the deal breaker. How can you put into law that you allow up to 5,000 per day to enter illegally ?
That would be the law of the land, that we allow 5,000ILLEGAL ENTRIES per day and that would become part of the law going forward indefinitely ?
The number should be zero as far as making any laws. Illegal is illegal.
Bad law is bad law and in this case nothing is better than something that allows an illegal activity.
Do you really want to create a law that allows 1.8 million illegal unrestricted, unvetted entries per year ?
We just added another 10 million and counting illegals during the Biden admin. We just found out that Biden has flown in 530,000 illegals on direct flights from their countries this year alone. How much is too much for you ?
Nothing. But that Bi-partisan Bill in February would have 1. Add more border patrol agents. 2. More funding for agents, processing centers and administration. 3. Immediate deportation if crossed illegally without applying for asylum in a previous country. 4. Much harder qualifications for asylum. 5. And if crossings go over a certain number, the border is closed.
BIPARTISAN deal for the BORDER that Republicans are screaming about. Both Republicans and Democrats wrote this. In fact, Republicans got more concessions of their wish list than dems. What is the problem with that?
But Trump wanted to run on it and little Mikey Johnson did his bidding. The current border issues are on Trump and his need to stop a solution so he could have a problem to run on.
There is no such thing as perfect laws that stop all crime; despite speed limits, people still speed. But far less than they would if there were no speed limit law.
SOMETHING is always better than Nothing when it comes to law enforcement.
An analysis derived from new data is now able to help address this question, suggesting that growth in illegal immigration does not lead to higher local crime rates.
In part because it’s hard to collect data on them, undocumented immigrants have been the subjects of few studies, including those related to crime. But the Pew Research Center recently released estimates of undocumented populations sorted by metro area, which The Marshall Project has compared with local crime rates published by the F.B.I. For the first time, there is an opportunity for a broader analysis of how unauthorized immigration might have affected crime rates since 2007.
Murder was the only type of crime that appeared to show a rise, but again the difference was small and uncertain (effectively zero).
Yeah, what's another couple of 100 or so dead in a year's time in the big picture, right ? They're just numbers, not people to you, eh ?
Look, the only point that I have been trying to make from day one is that crimes committed by illegal immigrants are preventable. If they were not here, these crimes would not have been committed. It's pretty simple. It has nothing to do with crime rates, at all. You and others keep ignoring that point. Instead you simply talk about crime rates, not the crimes they commit. You excuse the crimes they commit by saying that they are no more likely to commit crimes than any other people who are here legally. So effing what.
If they were not here, the crimes they commit would not happen. Why is that so hard to accept and understand ?
"Are you conflating objection to illegal immigration to mean just being anti immigration across the board as usual ?"
No. There is a sizable group of Americans who don't like immigrants at all. And no, I was not trying to indirectly snark at you.
"Yeah, what's another couple of 100 or so dead in a year's time in the big picture, right ? They're just numbers, not people to you, eh ?"
Hey, rockstar: the next time you quote an article, try capturing ALL of the relevant text—like this:
"Murder was the only type of crime that appeared to show a rise,but again the difference was small and uncertain (effectively zero)."
"Look, the only point that I have been trying to make from day one is that crimes committed by illegal immigrants are preventable. If they were not here, these crimes would not have been committed. It's pretty simple."
READ the piece. Effectively it's saying that if you have a group of only native and immigrant Americans and another group of equal size consisting of native, legal- and illegal-immigrants, you're going to have similar or lower crime rates with the second group, esp. for violent crimes. From what I can tell, if you have a population of only native Americans (not Native Americans as in "Indians"), you will have higher crime rates than a population with immigrants.
You seem to think that if by majick you rid the US of illegal immigrants, crime rates will go down. That's not the case. A murder or rape is horrible no matter who does it. A crime committed by an illegal immigrant is no worse than one committed by a native or legal immigrant. In aggregate, you will have the same or more crimes including violent crimes even if you totally wipe out illegal immigration. Joe Smith might get murdered by an illegal Jose Jimenez and yes that's awful. But if Don Chapman, whose family has been in the US for 300 years, takes Jose's place in an area and kills Sally Whitechapel, that's just as awful.
You're not going to make the US safer or more peaceful by harshly cracking down on illegal immigration: you just make the people trying to get in more desperate and more willing to put themselves into the hands of people who will take advantage of them and commit crimes against them, like coyotes.
You could argue against illegal immigration by focusing on the risks and harms that illegal immigrants face, but that would likely take an intelligent and moral person in another direction—towards trying to help illegals and addressing the long-term causes for their attempts to enter the US. Something the GOP and Trump can't or won't think about.
I believe that citizens of a country have a right to determine their nation's immigration policy. I don't believe in open borders without question. I think that any prosperous and peaceful country is always going to have to grapple with illegal immigration. From what I can tell however, a harsh and greatly limiting immigration policy a la the Trump administration's is ineffective, inhuman and counter-productive.
I think anti-immigrants can't intuitively grasp that immigrants often build up the country from the bottom of the economic pile; they just see takers and thieves and strange people not willing to assimilate.
Are you conflating objection to illegal immigration to mean just being anti immigration across the board as usual ?
. kcar wrote:
The skinny: an increase of illegal immigrants does not cause an increase in crime. Sorry, Kurt.
An analysis derived from new data is now able to help address this question, suggesting that growth in illegal immigration does not lead to higher local crime rates.
In part because it’s hard to collect data on them, undocumented immigrants have been the subjects of few studies, including those related to crime. But the Pew Research Center recently released estimates of undocumented populations sorted by metro area, which The Marshall Project has compared with local crime rates published by the F.B.I. For the first time, there is an opportunity for a broader analysis of how unauthorized immigration might have affected crime rates since 2007.
Murder was the only type of crime that appeared to show a rise, but again the difference was small and uncertain (effectively zero).
Yeah, what's another couple of 100 or so dead in a year's time in the big picture, right ? They're just numbers, not people to you, eh ?
Look, the only point that I have been trying to make from day one is that crimes committed by illegal immigrants are preventable. If they were not here, these crimes would not have been committed. It's pretty simple. It has nothing to do with crime rates, at all. You and others keep ignoring that point. Instead you simply talk about crime rates, not the crimes they commit. You excuse the crimes they commit by saying that they are no more likely to commit crimes than any other people who are here legally. So effing what.
If they were not here, the crimes they commit would not happen. Why is that so hard to accept and understand ?
The results of the analysis resemble those of other studies on the relationship between undocumented immigration and crime. Last year, a report by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, found that unauthorized immigrants in Texas committed fewer crimes than their native-born counterparts. A state-level analysis in Criminology, an academic journal, found that undocumented immigration did not increase violent crime and was in fact associated with slight decreases in it.Another Cato study found that unauthorized immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated.
At the more local level, an analysis by Governing magazine reported that metropolitan areas with more undocumented residents had similar rates of violent crime, and significantly lower rates of property crime, than areas with smaller numbers of such residents in 2014. After controlling for multiple socioeconomic factors, the author of the analysis, Mike Maciag, found that for every 1 percentage point increase in an area's population that was undocumented there were 94 fewer property crimes per 100,000 residents. ................
Many studies have established that immigrants commit crimes at consistently lower rates than native-born Americans. But a common concern is whether immigrants put pressure on native-born populations in any number of ways — for instance, by increasing job competition — that could indirectly lead to more crime and other negative impacts.
According to Mr. Adelman and his team, however, the impact of undocumented immigrants is probably similar to what the research indicates about immigrants over all: They tend to bring economic and cultural benefits to their communities. They typically come to America to find work, not to commit crimes, says Yulin Yang, a member of the team.
I am little surprised that these findings are not viewed as intuitively appealing by large numbers of Americans.
As a community organizer for the UFW AFL-CIO in the Phoenix, AZ outlying suburbs, the odd time I came across illegal farm workers, they were nervous and remained constantly on full alert. No matter how hard I tried, I could not make make them feel comfortable or relax. Despite my Spanish and slang being better than any other blue-eyed white person in the entire region.
The illegal status will provide ample incentives to behave well and avoid the attention of the police and other agents of the state.
Suspicions about immigrants legal and otherwise have a long history—based not in fact but in fear of the unknown and fear of being displaced, economically and culturally. Americans supposedly take pride in the notion that their country is a melting pot willing to take refugees from other countries but that pride always seems to look back in time and not at the present. I think anti-immigrants can't intuitively grasp that immigrants often build up the country from the bottom of the economic pile; they just see takers and thieves and strange people not willing to assimilate.
The results of the analysis resemble those of other studies on the relationship between undocumented immigration and crime. Last year, a report by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, found that unauthorized immigrants in Texas committed fewer crimes than their native-born counterparts. A state-level analysis in Criminology, an academic journal, found that undocumented immigration did not increase violent crime and was in fact associated with slight decreases in it.Another Cato study found that unauthorized immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated.
At the more local level, an analysis by Governing magazine reported that metropolitan areas with more undocumented residents had similar rates of violent crime, and significantly lower rates of property crime, than areas with smaller numbers of such residents in 2014. After controlling for multiple socioeconomic factors, the author of the analysis, Mike Maciag, found that for every 1 percentage point increase in an area's population that was undocumented there were 94 fewer property crimes per 100,000 residents. ................
Many studies have established that immigrants commit crimes at consistently lower rates than native-born Americans. But a common concern is whether immigrants put pressure on native-born populations in any number of ways â for instance, by increasing job competition â that could indirectly lead to more crime and other negative impacts.
According to Mr. Adelman and his team, however, the impact of undocumented immigrants is probably similar to what the research indicates about immigrants over all: They tend to bring economic and cultural benefits to their communities. They typically come to America to find work, not to commit crimes, says Yulin Yang, a member of the team.
I am little surprised that these findings are not viewed as intuitively appealing by large numbers of Americans.
As a community organizer for the UFW AFL-CIO in the Phoenix, AZ outlying suburbs, the odd time I came across illegal farm workers, they were nervous and remained constantly on full alert. No matter how hard I tried, I could not make make them feel comfortable or relax. Despite my Spanish and slang being better than any other blue-eyed white person in the entire region.
The illegal status will provide ample incentives to behave well and avoid the attention of the police and other agents of the state.
An analysis derived from new data is now able to help address this question, suggesting that growth in illegal immigration does not lead to higher local crime rates.
In part because it’s hard to collect data on them, undocumented immigrants have been the subjects of few studies, including those related to crime. But the Pew Research Center recently released estimates of undocumented populations sorted by metro area, which The Marshall Project has compared with local crime rates published by the F.B.I. For the first time, there is an opportunity for a broader analysis of how unauthorized immigration might have affected crime rates since 2007.
...
The analysis found that crime went down at similar rates regardless of whether the undocumented population rose or fell. Areas with more unauthorized migration appeared to have larger drops in crime, although the difference was small and uncertain.
...
Most types of crime had an almost flat trend line, indicating that changes in undocumented populations had little or no effect on crime in the various metro areas under survey. Murder was the only type of crime that appeared to show a rise, but again the difference was small and uncertain (effectively zero).
...
The results of the analysis resemble those of other studies on the relationship between undocumented immigration and crime. Last year, a report by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, found that unauthorized immigrants in Texas committed fewer crimes than their native-born counterparts. A state-level analysis in Criminology, an academic journal, found that undocumented immigration did not increase violent crime and was in fact associated with slight decreases in it.Another Cato study found that unauthorized immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated.
At the more local level, an analysis by Governing magazine reported that metropolitan areas with more undocumented residents had similar rates of violent crime, and significantly lower rates of property crime, than areas with smaller numbers of such residents in 2014. After controlling for multiple socioeconomic factors, the author of the analysis, Mike Maciag, found that for every 1 percentage point increase in an area's population that was undocumented there were 94 fewer property crimes per 100,000 residents.
More research is underway about the potential effects of undocumented immigration on crime. Robert Adelman, a professor at the University at Buffalo, SUNY, whose group’s research The Marshall Project and The Upshot have previously documented, is leading a team to expand on the Governing analysis. Early results suggest unauthorized immigration has no effect on violent crime, and is associated with lower property crime, the same as Mr. Maciag found.
...
Many studies have established that immigrants commit crimes at consistently lower rates than native-born Americans. But a common concern is whether immigrants put pressure on native-born populations in any number of ways — for instance, by increasing job competition — that could indirectly lead to more crime and other negative impacts.
According to Mr. Adelman and his team, however, the impact of undocumented immigrants is probably similar to what the research indicates about immigrants over all: They tend to bring economic and cultural benefits to their communities. They typically come to America to find work, not to commit crimes, says Yulin Yang, a member of the team.
She's sure making a lot of old white guys very uncomfortable.
Not this one. With only about 5 more years left in this body, it is unlikely to have much of an impact on me.
I do hope that I live long enough to see the shock of the gimme, gimme / instant gratification culture when they find out when aircraft are gone, their 2nd day / next day delivery of their stuff is gone, too. High speed trains can move people but not freight. 2nd week delivery might be the best you can get. And then to electrify the entire railroad system ... there ain't enough copper to do it. No nuclear, no petroleum to fuel the electric grid. Yeah, solar and wind can do it all. Uh, huh. Deforest the planet to replace / retrofit all buildings ?
Amazing how stupid some people are. And they are reproducing at an exponential rate. Explains why things are the way they are.
We need a New Green Deal thread. Oh how much fun it will be !!
