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kcar

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Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 12:06pm

 Beaker wrote:

Am looking forward to the colourful commentary here when Hunter Biden goes to trial.



Hunter Biden is a recovering drug addict who is not running for any political office. 

Maybe you should pay a little more attention to the bloated, demented, mascara-wearing FELON who tried to overthrow the US government. At this point he's a zombie who can only focus on what people supposedly did to him. 

Do you really want to go back to this? 

Beaker

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Location: Your safe space


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 11:56am

 islander wrote:


And of course you are going to sing the praises of the justice department now as well right?  As well as noting the very proper common sense limits on 2nd amendment rights to own a gun? 


:yawn: whatever 

we now return you to our regularly scheduled logic-free diatribes
islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 11:52am

 Beaker wrote:



  ayup


And of course you are going to sing the praises of the justice department now as well right?  As well as noting the very proper common sense limits on 2nd amendment rights to own a gun? 
Beaker

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Location: Your safe space


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 11:45am

 islander wrote:
I am not voting for that guy for sure.



  ayup
islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 11:41am

 steeler wrote:






Curious how now some people are all upset about a politically motivated prosecution...
rgio

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Location: West Jersey
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Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 11:38am

 Beaker wrote:

Am looking forward to the colourful commentary here when Hunter Biden goes to trial.


Why wait...on Amazon now...
...

steeler

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Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 11:34am

 islander wrote:


I am not voting for that guy for sure.




islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 11:33am

 Beaker wrote:

Am looking forward to the colourful commentary here when Hunter Biden goes to trial.



I am not voting for that guy for sure.
Beaker

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Location: Your safe space


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 11:31am

 rgio wrote:

To avoid the need for correction... Baron was born in March of 2006, and the golf tournament where Stormy says they had sex was in July of 2006.  Beyond Stormy, it's also notable that his then "full-time" side piece, playmate Karen McDougal, has testified that she had sex with him the following night.

It's easy to see why the evangelicals stand behind him.

Am looking forward to the colourful commentary here when Hunter Biden goes to trial.

rgio

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Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 11:27am

 islander wrote:
... Of course if we want to follow the reductionist line further, he could have just avoided sleeping with the porn star while his wife was pregnant, and then there would be nothing to cover up (this was a strategy that Obama used, so Trump was reluctant to do the same thing).  ...

To avoid the need for correction... Baron was born in March of 2006, and the golf tournament where Stormy says they had sex was in July of 2006.  Beyond Stormy, it's also notable that his then "full-time" side piece, playmate Karen McDougal, has testified that she had sex with him the following night.

It's easy to see why the evangelicals stand behind him.
steeler

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Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 10:42am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


I can't remember who said this amusing thing but some long-time colleague said if you ask him what time it is, he'll lie, just to keep in practice. 

The time has come . . . Today!

ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
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Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 10:39am

 steeler wrote:


I hesitate to comment on the Carroll cases and this discussion about them, but I do want to make one point that also applies to the Stormy Daniels “hush money” case.

Trump’s instinct when challenged/accused is to deny, deny, deny. His instinct is to lie. In a legal case, in the court room, that, not surprisingly, typically gets you in trouble. This also is true when you lie about things you could admit or concede without damaging your case. It snowballs.  In the Carroll case, Trump did not just deny the alleged sexual assault, he denied even knowing Carroll. In the Stormy Daniels case, his lawyers denied Trump had sex with Stormy even though it was consensual and the admission of which was irrelevant to the offense charged. In sum, Trump lies way beyond what is necessary, and that makes it easier to trip him up. That is why lawyers would not want to put him on the stand as a witness. It also can make the testimony of those accusing him more credible than might otherwise be the case because he unnecessarily portrays them as lying about everything. 



I can't remember who said this amusing thing but some long-time colleague said if you ask him what time it is, he'll lie, just to keep in practice. 
islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 10:32am

 black321 wrote:


ehhh...again, entering an NDA wasn't illegal (I havent seen one thing written that stated the payment was illegal)...but how he did it was.
back to my point on trump (and the clintons)...the cover up was what got them in trouble. 



Yes, it would have been perfectly legal had he just spent his own money directly. But he feared that some one would find out (and he also likely wanted to claim it as an expense for tax reasons). But he didn't do that. His greed and hubris put him in a situation where he did something illegal. The evidence was found, shown to a jury (several) and he was found guilty.  

Of course if we want to follow the reductionist line further, he could have just avoided sleeping with the porn star while his wife was pregnant, and then there would be nothing to cover up (this was a strategy that Obama used, so Trump was reluctant to do the same thing).  

He could have also just retired happily on his pile of doubloons in the early 2000s and spent his golden years on a beach getting a real tan.  But apparently he has some inner demons that need to be fed, so we all must suffer along. 
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 10:01am

 kurtster wrote:

What I said about the Carroll matter is that it is a "she said, he said" thing. Nothing was proven. The time it happened was even vague on her own recollection. Carroll is a known player in the rich and famous circles and has even been quoted as saying that rape is sexy. According to her, she invited Trump into a dressing room in a lingerie section of a very upscale department store. Sounds like some kinda deal like the Mile High Club. Another fantasy to check off the list. Maybe it didn't quite go the way she wanted it to. Like, not enough foreplay ? Pissed her off. Anyway, Ms Carroll is not naive nor the picture of innocence as you seem to insist that she is. I see it as a case of someone trying to cash in on the "me, too" movement and nothing else. And did she. Trump paid her a lot of money. Serious life changing money. Not enough in your view ? You want more out of him ? It is between Trump and Carroll, you are not part of the equation other than another gawker rubber necking as the rich and famous do their Gatsby thing. You're just jealous of that world.


I hesitate to comment on the Carroll cases and this discussion about them, but I do want to make one point that also applies to the Stormy Daniels “hush money” case.

Trump’s instinct when challenged/accused is to deny, deny, deny. His instinct is to lie. In a legal case, in the court room, that, not surprisingly, typically gets you in trouble. This also is true when you lie about things you could admit or concede without damaging your case. It snowballs.  In the Carroll case, Trump did not just deny the alleged sexual assault, he denied even knowing Carroll. In the Stormy Daniels case, his lawyers denied Trump had sex with Stormy even though it was consensual and the admission of which was irrelevant to the offense charged. In sum, Trump lies way beyond what is necessary, and that makes it easier to trip him up. That is why lawyers would not want to put him on the stand as a witness. It also can make the testimony of those accusing him more credible than might otherwise be the case because he unnecessarily portrays them as lying about everything. 

black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 9:40am

 islander wrote:


Context matters. If you paint your garage, it's perfectly legal. If you steal paint to cover up blood splatter from the murder that you committed paint your garage, then there are other considerations. Is it okay to pay off a witness who might testify against you?  Trumps reimbursement of Cohen was part of a larger coordinated effort to suppress negative news stories. It's all interconnected and all illegal. Several different sets of jurors have reviewed the evidence and agreed.


ehhh...again, entering an NDA wasn't illegal (I havent seen one thing written that stated the payment was illegal)...but how he did it was.
back to my point on trump (and the clintons)...the cover up was what got them in trouble. 

islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 9:12am

 black321 wrote:


from what i can gather ...the payoff wasn't illegal, but the funding (Cohen) and accounting for the payoff was illegal...and regardless of the timing, was (somehow) tied to election interference. 
Cohen was found guilty of making an illegal "campaign contribution" in the form of the payment. Then Trump went to reimburse Cohen in 2017, but the accounting was fraudulent...so I suppose the timing is irrelevant. 
Trumps "felony" conviction seems pretty wishy washy, and apparently relied on a complex interplay of laws that really were never tested before. 
Not sure if the latter means anything?

I find the whole case rather interesting... as it seems to be the most benign of all trumps cases, yet I will bet this is the only one he is found guilty of. Kinda like a gangster convicted of mail fraud. Also bet he will win in Nov....for me that's like betting against my NY Rangers, who just lost the eastern conference 



Context matters. If you paint your garage, it's perfectly legal. If you steal paint to cover up blood splatter from the murder that you committed paint your garage, then there are other considerations. Is it okay to pay off a witness who might testify against you?  Trumps reimbursement of Cohen was part of a larger coordinated effort to suppress negative news stories. It's all interconnected and all illegal. Several different sets of jurors have reviewed the evidence and agreed.
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 8:26am

Clinton campaign, DNC fined by FEC for lying about Steele dossier payments

Published March 30, 2022

The Clinton campaign and the DNC paid more than $1 million combined to powerful Democratic law firm Perkins Coie, which engaged Fusion GPS to dig for dirt on Trump. Fusion GPS, in turn, hired former British spy Christopher Steele — whose namesake dossier included allegations that Russian security services possessed a tape of Trump in a Moscow hotel room with prostitutes who were supposedly urinating on a bed where the Obamas had previously stayed.

The FEC said Clinton and the DNC claimed the money given to Perkins Coie to hire Fusion GPS was reported on disclosure forms as having gone toward “legal advice and services” rather than opposition research.

The commission ruled it had found probable cause that both the Clinton campaign and the DNC had violated election law by not being “sufficiently specific” about the purpose of the payments and not including detailed information about Fusion GPS in the disclosure forms.

Yet the FEC investigated Trump for the NDA and passed.  As did other agencies.

Clearly unequal justice in the light of things.  Intent was clearly the biggest part of Clinton's plans which she undertook as a resident of New York ...

Beaker

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Location: Your safe space


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 8:16am



black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 8:14am

 haresfur wrote:

I don't know the details of the arguments at trial. But if Trump had Cohen pay her off before the election as part of election interference and to maintain hands off until after the election, then it is still election interference, correct? Even if the actual transfer of money and illegal bookkeeping happened after. 



from what i can gather ...the payoff wasn't illegal, but the funding (Cohen) and accounting for the payoff was illegal...and regardless of the timing, was (somehow) tied to election interference. 
Cohen was found guilty of making an illegal "campaign contribution" in the form of the payment. Then Trump went to reimburse Cohen in 2017, but the accounting was fraudulent...so I suppose the timing is irrelevant. 
Trumps "felony" conviction seems pretty wishy washy, and apparently relied on a complex interplay of laws that really were never tested before. 
Not sure if the latter means anything?

I find the whole case rather interesting... as it seems to be the most benign of all trumps cases, yet I will bet this is the only one he is found guilty of. Kinda like a gangster convicted of mail fraud. Also bet he will win in Nov....for me that's like betting against my NY Rangers, who just lost the eastern conference 
Isabeau

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Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Jun 3, 2024 - 6:59am

 islander wrote:


Yes, but the whole thing isn't hard to grasp. Cohen paid Daniels (campaign finance violations/election interference) at the behest of trump and Pecker (conspiracy). Trump repaid Cohen (same crimes), but tried to hide what the payments were for (misdemeanor falsifying business records, but escalated to felony because it was done in commission of another crime(s)).  This has been through several sets of jurors and grand jurors, and everyone of those has found the evidence compelling.


succinct explanation!!
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