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Joe Biden - rgio - Jun 12, 2024 - 8:28am
 
Right, Left, Right of Left, Left of Right, Center...? - kurtster - Jun 11, 2024 - 10:36pm
 
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Things You Thought Today - thisbody - Jun 11, 2024 - 2:45pm
 
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Words that should be put on the substitutes bench for a year - sunybuny - Jun 11, 2024 - 4:38am
 
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Lyrics that are stuck in your head today... - Manbird - Jun 7, 2024 - 8:04pm
 
What the hell OV? - oldviolin - Jun 7, 2024 - 7:42pm
 
Can you afford to retire? - JrzyTmata - Jun 7, 2024 - 2:05pm
 
Old timers, crosswords & - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 7, 2024 - 12:09pm
 
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What makes you smile? - Red_Dragon - Jun 7, 2024 - 6:32am
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - oldviolin - Jun 6, 2024 - 12:35pm
 
What's with the Sitar? ...and Robert Plant - thisbody - Jun 6, 2024 - 11:16am
 
songs that ROCK! - thisbody - Jun 6, 2024 - 10:39am
 
Canada - Beaker - Jun 5, 2024 - 1:58pm
 
the Todd Rundgren topic - miamizsun - Jun 5, 2024 - 5:00am
 
Photos you have taken of your walks or hikes. - MrDill - Jun 5, 2024 - 2:26am
 
Automotive Lust - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jun 4, 2024 - 9:28pm
 
Art Show - Manbird - Jun 4, 2024 - 8:20pm
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Science is bullsh*t Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 15, 16, 17  Next
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GeneP59

GeneP59 Avatar

Location: On the edge of tomorrow looking back at yesterday.
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2024 - 4:16pm

 Beaker wrote:

Exciting news! The turbo-encabulator has now reached a high level of development, and it’s being successfully used in the operation of novertrunnions.




That guy is trying to steal my electronic thing-a-mabob held together by a which-a-macaullic in conjunction with the hand made plastic dohickey and pressurized gronasteel that can circumnavigate the isolated zip skimmer every 57.5 Quadra-second.

This is why we can never have anything nice.
Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: May 21, 2024 - 3:30pm

Exciting news! The turbo-encabulator has now reached a high level of development, and it’s being successfully used in the operation of novertrunnions.

oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: May 15, 2024 - 11:44am


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 15, 2024 - 8:02am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
From the comments on the Manley video, “models or analogies that will get us by until you have an interest or need for more accuracy”

I have a feeling that NDGT was not teaching an upper-level course in physics there. You need a 20-second bit on how wings work to generate lift, there you go. Manley's attempted point that the molecules don't form a pact and agree to meet up at the other edge of the wing is pretty juvenile.

Considering how charmingly pedantic Tyson can be he deserves to be called out on this, especially since the misconception is so common.

Looking forward to him looking up the actual cause and making another video setting the record straight.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 15, 2024 - 7:56am

 Beaker wrote:

In which Neil deGrasse Tyson spews nonsense ... and gets used as an example of what's going wrong with teaching the physics of flying

Scott Manley on the fallacy of equal transit theory:






From the comments on the Manley video, “models or analogies that will get us by until you have an interest or need for more accuracy”

I have a feeling that NDGT was not teaching an upper-level course in physics there. You need a 20-second bit on how wings work to generate lift, there you go. Manley's attempted point that the molecules don't form a pact and agree to meet up at the other edge of the wing is pretty juvenile.

But having waded into uncharted territory (for me) I'm saving this link for later: NASA Beginner's Guide to Aeronautics


buddy

buddy Avatar

Location: Rocky Mountains
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 8:11pm

 oldviolin wrote:


Last I heard he was down in Truth Or Consequences New Mexico selling time shares to off- shore investors and snake oil antidote supplements at various and sundry online church socials...


At least he’s being productive.

Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 3:58pm

In which Neil deGrasse Tyson spews nonsense ... and gets used as an example of what's going wrong with teaching the physics of flying
Scott Manley on the fallacy of equal transit theory:




KurtfromLaQuinta

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Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 3:26pm

 oldviolin wrote:
  I am not surprised.
Going back to the beginning of this thread is a hoot. Shout out to all the MIA

There's lots of those.
Surprising how many of us are still alive.

Alchemist

Alchemist Avatar

Location: San Jose, CA
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 2:52pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
 Beaker wrote:

Yep.  But I draw a different outcome. In the real world, the wheels allow the jet to move down the runway, propelled by the engines.  Without wheels, the aircraft can not move (easily).  Stop all movement (bolt the aircraft to the ground, or treadmill cancels out the wheels) and the jet does not move - no matter how much thrust the engines produce.  No movement - no airflow over the wings.  QED ? *ignoring any destructive forces that would show up in the real world
Right, the wheels "freewheel" and provide no thrust or resistance (unless braking). So as far as the wheels having anything to do with the plane taking off, no connection.
 
The plane will move forward and fall off the treadmill regardless of the speed of the tread.  Whether it can take off depends on how much damage it sustains when it takes off.
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 11:45am

 buddy wrote:

I miss winter.  Curious if he ever got laid.




Last I heard he was down in Truth Or Consequences New Mexico selling time shares to off- shore investors and snake oil antidote supplements at various and sundry online church socials...

buddy

buddy Avatar

Location: Rocky Mountains
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 11:34am

 winter wrote:


Science hasn't gotten me laid yet. Also it doesn't explain why poetry is nice.

Down with science!

I miss winter.  Curious if he ever got laid.


oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 11:26am

 betterdaze wrote:
[I claim credit for this thread. ]
 I am not surprised.
Going back to the beginning of this thread is a hoot. Shout out to all the MIA
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 10:45am

And because this is fun stuff, let's look at the obverse. If the jet were at pre touchdown speed as landing, that speed right before it landed would render the wheels on which the matched speed conveyor it landed perfectly irrelevant, for a moment; negating the instant friction and slowdown caused by the initial contact. Then having dodged the zero to lift speed co-efficient we could kick the whole conveyor rig out from under and it could hover in bliss...








oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 10:16am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


Sure. Just like every day and every plane. The wheels provide a frictionless surface from which to get up to speed.


see that edit lol
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 10:15am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


Right, the wheels "freewheel" and provide no thrust or resistance (unless braking). So as far as the wheels having anything to do with the plane taking off, no connection.



No connection at all. However, there is no way to go from zero to lift/flight speed without all the speeds in between which would be face plant territory when unsupported by volumes of air forthwith lolol


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 10:15am

 oldviolin wrote:


The problem is presented as being on wheels and that somehow being a precondition to able flight, which of course it isn't. But, if it were just hovering there without wheels, and since flight would not be instantaneous, it would need to be able to convert air to lift via forward momentum. or something...



Sure. Just like every day and every plane. The wheels provide a frictionless surface from which to get up to speed.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 10:11am

 Beaker wrote:

Yep.  But I draw a different outcome.

In the real world, the wheels allow the jet to move down the runway, propelled by the engines.  Without wheels, the aircraft can not move (easily).  Stop all movement (bolt the aircraft to the ground, or treadmill cancels out the wheels) and the jet does not move - no matter how much thrust the engines produce.  No movement - no airflow over the wings.  QED ?

*ignoring any destructive forces that would show up in the real world



Right, the wheels "freewheel" and provide no thrust or resistance (unless braking). So as far as the wheels having anything to do with the plane taking off, no connection.

oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 10:09am

 Beaker wrote:


It is a challenging concept.  I've managed to find myself on both sides of the argument.  The key ingredient: - is there, or is there not airflow over the wings?  No airflow, no liftoff (right? lol).

Beyond that, it's a bunch of wheels going very fast.  And, four engines running up to full speed - think how that works in a static jet engine test stand.  Those positing that a treadmill going at warp speed will create the airflow needed over the wings ... these are facts not in evidence, as the lawyerly types would say.

* assumes said treadmill can both create the speeds necessary and tolerate the mechanical abuse

I stand ready for insta-humiliation.




The problem is presented as being on wheels and that somehow being a precondition to able flight, which of course it isn't. But, if it were just hovering there without wheels, and since flight would not be instantaneous, it would need to be able to convert air to lift via forward momentum. or something...

Of course, that is the taking off scenario.

If it were already at cruising speed and somebody managed to get a flying conveyor under it, well, the point would be mute...lol

Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 9:58am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


I say to ignore the wheels and belt, that's the fantasy that gets in the way of a straightforward problem: If the plane's on a frictionless surface, or hovering midair thru some spaceship magic, and the jets provide thrust, that plane is taking off. 

Yep.  But I draw a different outcome.

In the real world, the wheels allow the jet to move down the runway, propelled by the engines.  Without wheels, the aircraft can not move (easily).  Stop all movement (bolt the aircraft to the ground, or treadmill cancels out the wheels) and the jet does not move - no matter how much thrust the engines produce.  No movement - no airflow over the wings.  QED ?

*ignoring any destructive forces that would show up in the real world

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 14, 2024 - 9:49am

 Beaker wrote:


It is a challenging concept.  I've managed to find myself on both sides of the argument.  The key ingredient: - is there, or is there not airflow over the wings?  No airflow, no liftoff (right? lol).

Beyond that, it's a bunch of wheels going very fast.  And, four engines running up to full speed - think how that works in a static jet engine test stand.  Those positing that a treadmill going at warp speed will create the airflow needed over the wings ... these are facts not in evidence, as the lawyerly types would say.

* assumes said treadmill can both create the speeds necessary and tolerate the mechanical abuse

I stand ready for insta-humiliation.




I say to ignore the wheels and belt, that's the fantasy that gets in the way of a straightforward problem: If the plane's on a frictionless surface, or hovering midair thru some spaceship magic, and the jets provide thrust, that plane is taking off. 
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