delme - jarro - Jun 19, 2018 - 5:21am
 
illegal immigrants - kurtster - Jun 19, 2018 - 5:18am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - Coaxial - Jun 19, 2018 - 5:00am
 
Things You Thought Today - sirdroseph - Jun 19, 2018 - 4:43am
 
Trump - sirdroseph - Jun 19, 2018 - 1:42am
 
Economix - R_P - Jun 18, 2018 - 11:38pm
 
Even In The Quietest Moments - Blackbirds - Jun 18, 2018 - 11:00pm
 
Beer - Blackbirds - Jun 18, 2018 - 10:48pm
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - Jun 18, 2018 - 9:59pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - spammer - Jun 18, 2018 - 9:14pm
 
Climate Change - R_P - Jun 18, 2018 - 7:58pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - kurtster - Jun 18, 2018 - 5:48pm
 
Voter Registration Fraud - R_P - Jun 18, 2018 - 5:20pm
 
Trump Lies - R_P - Jun 18, 2018 - 3:59pm
 
THE Question of Our Time - oldviolin - Jun 18, 2018 - 1:39pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - Antigone - Jun 18, 2018 - 11:59am
 
Great Old Songs You Rarely Hear Anymore - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 18, 2018 - 11:35am
 
What Makes You Sad? - Antigone - Jun 18, 2018 - 8:13am
 
Counting with Pictures - Proclivities - Jun 18, 2018 - 7:25am
 
What Makes You Laugh? - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 17, 2018 - 8:23pm
 
Back to the 30's - R_P - Jun 17, 2018 - 4:37pm
 
Back to the 70's - R_P - Jun 17, 2018 - 2:33pm
 
What are you doing RIGHT NOW? - helenofjoy - Jun 17, 2018 - 1:19pm
 
What are you listening to now? - SeriousLee - Jun 17, 2018 - 8:51am
 
Strange signs, marquees, billboards, etc. - Proclivities - Jun 17, 2018 - 7:30am
 
Cannot login with Android app - tortdog - Jun 17, 2018 - 6:06am
 
Google Home - jarro - Jun 17, 2018 - 1:38am
 
Live Music - R_P - Jun 16, 2018 - 6:07pm
 
Celebrity Deaths - islander - Jun 16, 2018 - 1:40pm
 
The Dragons' Roost - triskele - Jun 16, 2018 - 1:39pm
 
Israel - R_P - Jun 16, 2018 - 1:34pm
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos; Please Limit to 510 ... - fractalv - Jun 16, 2018 - 11:40am
 
HomeKit HomePod AppleTV - Steely_D - Jun 16, 2018 - 10:28am
 
RP on Amazon Echo - Baktus - Jun 16, 2018 - 7:36am
 
World Music - R_P - Jun 16, 2018 - 7:35am
 
Poll: Would you play RP at a house party? - ih8bills - Jun 16, 2018 - 6:55am
 
Free Mp3s - R_P - Jun 15, 2018 - 12:37pm
 
what the hell, miamizsun? - SeriousLee - Jun 15, 2018 - 11:37am
 
Tales from the RAFT - SeriousLee - Jun 15, 2018 - 11:34am
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - SeriousLee - Jun 15, 2018 - 11:17am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Jun 15, 2018 - 11:06am
 
PSD isn't working ...AGAIN (*sigh) - LowPhreak - Jun 15, 2018 - 11:01am
 
What Are You Going To Do Today? - cc_rider - Jun 15, 2018 - 9:42am
 
Penny and Sparrow - wadeldro - Jun 15, 2018 - 8:50am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Jun 15, 2018 - 6:14am
 
What Are You Grateful For? - Coaxial - Jun 15, 2018 - 6:13am
 
All Dogs Go To Heaven - Dog Pix - olivertwist - Jun 15, 2018 - 6:04am
 
I Feel Good - SeriousLee - Jun 15, 2018 - 2:31am
 
Classical Music - kcar - Jun 15, 2018 - 12:39am
 
Great guitar faces - kurtster - Jun 14, 2018 - 5:53pm
 
Flower Pictures - Antigone - Jun 14, 2018 - 5:26pm
 
Questions. - pigtail - Jun 14, 2018 - 2:39pm
 
Did you hear this story? - kurtster - Jun 14, 2018 - 10:26am
 
What Did You Do Today? - Coaxial - Jun 14, 2018 - 10:05am
 
Celebrities Who Have Managed to Kill Their Own Careers - meower - Jun 14, 2018 - 9:09am
 
Derplahoma Questions and Points of Interest - cc_rider - Jun 14, 2018 - 8:52am
 
Autism Issues - meower - Jun 14, 2018 - 7:22am
 
North Korea - R_P - Jun 13, 2018 - 11:49pm
 
RightWingNutZ - R_P - Jun 13, 2018 - 6:17pm
 
Military Matters - R_P - Jun 13, 2018 - 6:10pm
 
"Him Too" - R_P - Jun 13, 2018 - 5:53pm
 
Name My Band - Red_Dragon - Jun 13, 2018 - 5:39pm
 
Fake News*  ?  ! - R_P - Jun 13, 2018 - 5:35pm
 
A motivational quote - Tahtohnkah - Jun 13, 2018 - 2:02pm
 
Protest Songs - rhahl - Jun 13, 2018 - 1:32pm
 
Museum Of Bad Album Covers - Proclivities - Jun 13, 2018 - 1:02pm
 
RP3 Beta Player - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 13, 2018 - 11:50am
 
Breaking News - pigtail - Jun 13, 2018 - 10:37am
 
Net Neutrality - Proclivities - Jun 13, 2018 - 6:57am
 
Lowell - meower - Jun 13, 2018 - 6:54am
 
Things that make you go Hmmmm..... - BlueHeronDruid - Jun 12, 2018 - 10:49pm
 
MoveOn.org/George Soros Watch - R_P - Jun 12, 2018 - 8:44pm
 
Sleepless in.... - Steely_D - Jun 12, 2018 - 8:05pm
 
The war on funk is over! - rhahl - Jun 12, 2018 - 6:56pm
 
I ain't got my taco! - R_P - Jun 12, 2018 - 6:52pm
 
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sirdroseph
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Posted: Jun 19, 2018 - 1:42am

 Steely_D wrote:
It's always good form to try to see the other person's perspective, even when you disagree. How can you discuss if you don't understand them? So what seems to be their thought process, allowing something so cruel?

This horrific move by Trump is intentionally horrific, in order to scare illegal immigrants and dissuade them. Why? To save the legal, existing Americans from being overrun by illegal immigrants that will use up legal Americans' resources. It is for the long-term good of the nation.

So although this is monstrous, in the big picture those who support it believe that their first obligation is to the country and not to people coming in illegally.

This means that you will not be able to sway them from their attempt to save millions by hurting thousands. If you've seen Infinity War, this is similar to the Thanos approach.
 

 
You really nailed it here, this is exactly what it is about. Which is why we really do need to come up with a compromise and implement some real immigration reform and to be honest, this is very well might be what forces Congress hand to do so.  If I thought Trump could hold a steady thought and think ahead for more than 2 minutes, I would commend him for having a plan, but I don't know if I can give him that much credit.
kcar

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Posted: Jun 19, 2018 - 12:47am

 Steely_D wrote:


It's always good form to try to see the other person's perspective, even when you disagree. How can you discuss if you don't understand them? So what seems to be their thought process, allowing something so cruel?

This horrific move by Trump is intentionally horrific, in order to scare illegal immigrants and dissuade them. Why? To save the legal, existing Americans from being overrun by illegal immigrants that will use up legal Americans' resources. It is for the long-term good of the nation.

So although this is monstrous, in the big picture those who support it believe that their first obligation is to the country and not to people coming in illegally. 

This means that you will not be able to sway them from their attempt to save millions by hurting thousands. If you've seen Infinity War, this is similar to the Thanos approach.
  
 

Steely_D, I gather that you're trying to voice the opinions of those who support separating illegal immigrant families with your words below: 


This horrific move by Trump is intentionally horrific, in order to scare illegal immigrants and dissuade them. Why? To save the legal, existing Americans from being overrun by illegal immigrants that will use up legal Americans' resources. It is for the long-term good of the nation.

So although this is monstrous, in the big picture those who support it believe that their first obligation is to the country and not to people coming in illegally. 


I tip my hat to you, but I have to ask: why aren't spammer and kurtster and others who (AFAICT) think this way posting something like what you did above? Why does it fall to you to present that side of the argument? I've been chasing after kurtster for a long time to spell out his thinking and offer support for his opinions. I'm not trying to harass him. I just would like to move towards an intelligent conversation of issues. 

As for your quote above, I'd ask the people who truly believe illegal immmigrants are a threat to and drain on our country a few things: 

1. Do they have any evidence that separating kids from parents will stop the flow of illegal immigrants? Are illegal immigrants aware of this change in policy? If they know about it, is it deterring them from crossing into the US? 

2. Is there a recent change in the state of illegal immigration, such as a dramatic non-seasonal increase in flow, that might been as justification for forcible separation? 

3. Do they have evidence that illegal immigrants are a net drain on the US economy, or a significant threat to safety and security here? The articles on research into this matter that I've read say that illegal immigrants are a net plus for the US economy and not a significant threat. 


It'd be great if we could have discussions around questions like these, instead of quick takes that don't have explanation or support behind them. 


R_P
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 11:58pm

 Steely_D wrote:
It's always good form to try to see the other person's perspective, even when you disagree. How can you discuss if you don't understand them? So what seems to be their thought process, allowing something so cruel? (...)
 
It's not rocket science, seeing how it's a pretty common perspective, not confined to one place or time. Take a stroll down any social media and you're bound see it in many varieties. Or read some history.
 
"It's the freeloaders/moochers, stupid. They are the root of all evil."

And it isn't just aimed at immigrants either...
Steely_D
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 11:36pm

 R_P wrote:
So what you appear to be saying is that illegal immigrants are pieces of shit, and if they bring their children they're even bigger pieces of shit.
 
It's always good form to try to see the other person's perspective, even when you disagree. How can you discuss if you don't understand them? So what seems to be their thought process, allowing something so cruel?

This horrific move by Trump is intentionally horrific, in order to scare illegal immigrants and dissuade them. Why? To save the legal, existing Americans from being overrun by illegal immigrants that will use up legal Americans' resources. It is for the long-term good of the nation.

So although this is monstrous, in the big picture those who support it believe that their first obligation is to the country and not to people coming in illegally.

This means that you will not be able to sway them from their attempt to save millions by hurting thousands. If you've seen Infinity War, this is similar to the Thanos approach.
 


kcar

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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 10:35pm

 R_P wrote:

So what you appear to be saying is that illegal immigrants are pieces of shit, and if they bring their children they're even bigger pieces of shit.
 

Even though those immigrants are often fleeing horrific conditions in their home country.  

spammer, do you have train to hate a whole group of people? Like you'd train for an triathlon? 


Lazy8
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 10:34pm

 steeler wrote:
Hence, my point made earlier that it is not the job of the media to "prosecute" Trump, which has been implied in comments today casting some blame on the media for inundating the public with so much Trump coverage that the public "jurors" begin filtering it all out or even begin sympathizing with Trump as somehow being the victim — which, of course, he claims to be all the time; at least when he is not claiming to be the victor..   

Many have commented on the "normalization" campaign of Trump .  Ruth Marcus of the Post has beat that drum regularly.  She argues that all of it needs to continue to be pointed out by people like her because of the danger that it otherwise becomes normal. 

So, we see 2 views of what is happening and the net results.        
 
Can we please drop the pretense that the media is serving some sacred function for Society and that they deserve reverence? They are businesses catering to clientele. They are partisan. They are not referees, they are players.
 
I'll hasten to add that I have absolutely no problem with this—it's human. Every story comes from a perspective. If you're honest about your perspective then the audience knows what color filter they're looking thru and what they're likely to be missing in the picture. When we insist on maintaining the fiction that there is such a thing as a neutral point of view every partisan feels justified believing his own bullshit.
 
CNN is partisan. The New York Times is partisan. That doesn't make them wrong.
 
They are enthusiastic (if surreptitious) members of the anti-Trump resistance. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Wave that banner! Trump deserves to be resisted.
 
But there are still rules: refrain from lying. Admit when you got the story wrong. Guard against letting your bias lead you to ignore facts, to make them up, to hide the parts of the story that reflect poorly on your side. You can be an honest partisan, and you'll be a more effective partisan. And we need that. We desperately need credible people calling out the crimes and lies of this horrifying lesion on the body politic.
 
What we have now is the normalizing of the cries of "Wolf!" Or if you'd rather, "Nazi!" There are actual wolves. There are actual nazis. When everyone who isn't on Team Blue is a wolf, a Nazi, a racist, simultaneously overly-pro-Israel and anti-semitic, Islamaphobic and sucking up to the Saudis, then there's no more alarm to raise. The alarm is always on, always on red alert. It's just more noise.

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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 10:24pm

 spammer wrote:
Post Fathers Day thought-

If I rob a 7-11 and have a kid with me,does that get me a free pass?Or just make me a bigger POS? 
 
So what you appear to be saying is that illegal immigrants are pieces of shit, and if they bring their children they're even bigger pieces of shit.

spammer
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 9:10pm

 steeler wrote:
So, accepting the Trump administration's version of the facts and its accompanying reasoning: if the reason they are separating children from their parents and detaining them is  because they have no choice but to enforce the law, then why have they not started deporting the Dreamers? 

I know, I know, do not give them ideas. 

 
Post Fathers Day thought-

If I rob a 7-11 and have a kid with me,does that get me a free pass?Or just make me a bigger POS?

BlueHeronDruid

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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 9:05pm

 Steely_D wrote:
 because he’s just that selfless of a leader. 

 



Steely_D
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 9:01pm

I enjoy a good conspiracy theory (Kubrick faked the moon landing, or McCartney replacement Faul - which is freaking brilliant), but you might not be aware of Qanon.

This apparently has some traction. I know some people who think this is real (or are just being trolls, doing it for the lulz, etc).

FTA

According to Q, Trump was never really involved with Russia, and isn’t actually under investigation by Mueller & Co. On the contrary, Q insists that it’s actually Clinton and Obama who were corrupted by Putin (and are now actually under investigation by Mueller) because they’re obviously just evil, money-hungry globalists who’ll do anything for the highest bidder. (Oh, yeah, and they’re also apparently into raping and killing children, though the crowd is split over whether this is because they’re satanists or just part of some weird blackmail scheme involving the CIA.) Q also claims that Trump, the genius that he is, figured all of this out way back when he was just a measly presidential candidate, and has been pretending to love Putin and/or be involved with Russia ever since as a way to force a third party to investigate these horrors — without drawing the attention of those evil Dems-who-must-not-be-named, of course — because he’s just that selfless of a leader. 



haresfur
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 7:21pm

 R_P wrote:
Bill O' does some tiny-shred-of-virtue-signalling...

 
Tiny shred of tactical withdrawal, you mean.
steeler
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 7:00pm

So, accepting the Trump administration's version of the facts and its accompanying reasoning: if the reason they are separating children from their parents and detaining them is  because they have no choice but to enforce the law, then why have they not started deporting the Dreamers? 

I know, I know, do not give them ideas. 
R_P
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 6:01pm

Bill O' does some tiny-shred-of-virtue-signalling...
steeler
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 4:22pm

 Proclivities wrote:

I agree with much of what Lazy8 pointed out about how how much of the press coverage about Trump's tweets and rumors about his administration are distracting from what is more important, almost as if Trump is doing that on purpose, but I want to avoid the metaphors  "prosecutor" and "case" when referring to the press/media since there is an active legal investigation going on to which those terms literally apply.
 
Hence, my point made earlier that it is not the job of the media to "prosecute" Trump, which has been implied in comments today casting some blame on the media for inundating the public with so much Trump coverage that the public "jurors" begin filtering it all out or even begin sympathizing with Trump as somehow being the victim — which, of course, he claims to be all the time; at least when he is not claiming to be the victor..   

Many have commented on the "normalization" campaign of Trump .  Ruth Marcus of the Post has beat that drum regularly.  She argues that all of it needs to continue to be pointed out by people like her because of the danger that it otherwise becomes normal. 

So, we see 2 views of what is happening and the net results.        
VV
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 3:46pm

Trump announces plans for Pentagon to create 'Space Force' 
  
 
File under WTF???



VV
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 3:44pm

 black321 wrote:

Who are the leaders of the democrats?  what's their message?  I dont hear anything compelling.  

 
Wow, do you ever stick to a topic? You said Dems never tried to sit with Trump. I refute that and now you are onto something else?
VV
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 3:43pm

 cc_rider wrote:

Oh, I didn't mean Trump would do any soul-searching. I meant us as a country. What kind of behavior will we tolerate? Do morals matter? Does personal behavior matter? Honesty? Corruption? Ethnic and class warfare? Simple decency?
c.

 
Totally agree. Seems there are no "norms" anymore.
black321
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 3:09pm

 VV wrote:

Bad example. Schumer and the Dems did come to the table awhile ago and thought they had a deal on DACA with Trump... then Trump blew that up the next day when some of his people got a hold of him and convinced him it was a bad deal. How do you work with someone whose views and stances can change daily or even hourly based on the last person he has talked with?
 
Most feedback is not knee jerk condemnation for every policy... just those policies that are ill-conceived or have some serious detrimental effects. Unfortunately they are they type of policies that Trump seems to be enamored with and have a hand in.

 
Who are the leaders of the democrats?  what's their message?  I dont hear anything compelling.  
cc_rider
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 3:06pm

 VV wrote:
That would presuppose that Trump had a soul... 
 
We also know that self-reflection seems to be foreign to him as well.
 
Oh, I didn't mean Trump would do any soul-searching. I meant us as a country. What kind of behavior will we tolerate? Do morals matter? Does personal behavior matter? Honesty? Corruption? Ethnic and class warfare? Simple decency?
c.
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Posted: Jun 18, 2018 - 2:34pm

Twitler the troll...

Ahem
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